In episode 61 of The Kitchen Table, Ken Baden interviews James Heflin IV from Bearcat Enterprises, a West Virginia-based company as he shares his journey from starting a landscaping business at the age of 15 to expanding into junk removal and exterior cleaning services. James also discusses his strategic approach to business, focusing on low barriers of entry, scalability, and easily trainable services.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:02:46] College Experience and Self-Governing School.
[00:06:49] College Life and Struggles.
[00:08:03] Blue Collar Ballers Community.
[00:11:19] Entrepreneurial Spirit.
[00:14:32] Business Pivots and Profitability.
[00:19:18] Passion for Landscaping Business.
[00:23:01] Smart Business Thought Process.
[00:28:21] Low Barrier of Entry Business.
[00:29:40] Snow Removal Business Insights.
[00:34:51] ADHD and Multitasking Challenges.
[00:40:01] Different Perspectives on Entrepreneurship.
[00:43:05] Entrepreneurship and Financial Success.
[00:45:38] The Security of a Job.
[00:49:45] Entrepreneurial Advice.
[00:52:57] Building a Personal Brand.
[00:56:49] The Value of Hard Work.
[01:00:53] Working Towards Financial Freedom.
[01:02:33] Bringing Value to the Audience.
In this episode, Ken Baden and James Heflin IV highlight the challenge many entrepreneurs face in balancing the risks and rewards of entrepreneurship with the need for stability and security. By maintaining a full-time job while running his business, he ensures a steady income and financial security while pursuing his entrepreneurial endeavors. This approach allows him to mitigate the risks associated with entrepreneurship while still pursuing his passion and building his business.
In addition, James underscores the importance of finding a balance between entrepreneurship and employment, especially when faced with personal circumstances or family expectations. It showcases the resilience and determination required to navigate the complexities of running a business while also holding down a traditional job. Ultimately, his approach demonstrates a strategic and practical way to pursue entrepreneurial goals while ensuring financial stability and security.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Ken Baden
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialkenbaden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/officialkenbaden
James Heflin IV
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hefliniv/
Facebook: https://www.linkedin.com/in/james-heflin-iv-276170147/
WEBSITES:
The Kitchen Table Podcast: https://thekitchentablepodcast.net/
Blue Collar Ballers Union: https://bluecollarballersunion.com/
Bearcat Enterprises: https://www.bearcatenterprises.com/
Welcome to the Kitchen Table, a podcast about where business is done. So pull up a chair and join your host, Ken Baden.
All right, welcome back to another episode of the Kitchen Table podcast. I'm your host, Ken Baden, and we're here with James Heflin from Bearcat Enterprises, who actually drove all the way down from West Virginia, which I was like, Wasn't anticipating a live podcast today, which is great because I love I prefer the live podcast But James, thank you for making the trip down here, man I appreciate you have me man came down from Morgantown heard before you've spent a little bit of time there I'm in Frostburg. Yeah, man, Frostburg, which is funny because Morgantown is like well, you know the city for Frostburg, even though it's Virginia West Virginia and Maryland like There ain't much in Frostburg, Maryland.
Ken Baden
There ain't much anywhere else. It was the city for everywhere. I grew up 90 minutes away, but like, if you wanted to see like a good hospital, you had to go to Morgantown. Really?
James Heflin
So that's West Virginia. So pretty much where Morgantown was, was the city for all of West Virginia.
Ken Baden
for that, that section of West Virginia, you know, Capitol's further South. So we kind of got our own little space there. We bring in a lot of people from all the way up to Pittsburgh and all the way over to Oakland.
James Heflin
That's funny. Cause, and that's Oakland, Maryland. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That area, it's like the tri-state area is like West Virginia, Maryland and PA. Yeah. So like, you know, I would be in Frostburg and I'd see a West Virginia gear, Steelers gear, Eagles gear and Redskins gear. And I'm like, What? You know what I mean? But it's because the Steelers are big up there. You know, obviously the Mountaineers, Redskins, and the Ravens. I mean, excuse me, the Ravens, not Eagles, Ravens. But it was just like, I don't know.
I'm a prime example. I'm a Pittsburgh Penguins fan. I was a Washington Redskins fan. And I lived near neither of those cities.
It makes sense, man. Because that's all there was up there, man. I mean, and truthfully, first of all, I loved. Because I went to College Park first. And I hated College Park. So I went to University of Maryland. I loved the school. I wanted to get in that school so bad. I had a bunch of buddies that went there. I worked really hard to get in, got in, went one semester. The girl I was dating at the time was at Frostburg. And so like, and I dated, we had dated all through high school. And I don't know, man, back then I probably had a ton of codependency issues and everything else, you know, probably still do. But we did one semester apart and I was like, This isn't for me, man.
Time to head out to the mountains.
Well, and I mean, too, I was commuting. So it didn't feel like I was getting the college experience, so to say. So instead, I went three hours, you know, west and to the mountains, you know. And dude, I loved it. Because the school is like run by college kids.
Oh, yeah.
I don't know if you've, have you been to Frostburg?
I've spent a little bit of time there.
A couple weekends. And it's a good, dude, it's a good time. I mean, it used to be. How old are you?
I'm 25.
Oh, you're a young cat, dude. See, like, you didn't get to see Frostberg in its prime. And its prime, it was just like this self-governing wild party school of like, I don't know, like a bunch of young folks figured out like, shit, we can just go up to these mountains, dude. And they just let us do whatever we want. We just run the town while school's in session. And then when it's out, the locals look at you like a weirdo. If you're still there, they're like, you know, they like side-eye you when you're still there over the summer, but.
That's about how Morgantown is.
Which is weird though, too, because it's like, Why would you, A, why would you stay? But to your point, it's like they get it, they tolerate it because that's probably the number one economy driver. But when school's out, go away. You know what I mean? They're like, all right, get lost, dude. They don't want to see you. Yeah, they need a break. Which I get, man. Those kids, man, they're like, I remember seeing girls in bikinis laying out on their roofs. And I'm like, yeah, this is the place for me, dude. You know what I mean? This is where I want to be. And it was a good time, man. I joined a fraternity. They didn't really have fraternity housing like they have at Maryland. They have frat row. They have fraternity row. And it's real. Fraternities are recognized as they are on campus or off campus fraternities in Frostburg, but housing was all rented houses. They didn't have fraternity owned or sanctioned fraternity housing. It was just like, well, this is a
Fraternity house is a massive house small, right?
We're gonna put letters in the window and hopefully they don't you know, catch us but I lived in a couple of those it was a good time and I I don't regret any of it I did essentially just like graduate and leave college with like a raging drug habit And so like, you know, there's some things that I but I wish I maybe didn't have happened but at the same token they all made me the person that I am today, so I wouldn't take any of it back, but I do have an affinity for the mountains, man. I love the skiing up there. So that's another thing, Wisp. That was a big... Deep Creek. Honestly, man, that's what I did most, more than anything. I didn't really do a whole lot of the nightlife in Morgantown or anything. I just, I knew a girl that went there. You know, I kind of had a crush on her, which is funny because she never knew that until like way later and always thought that I was an asshole. And then that's a long story. But anyhow, never went and saw her. Always talked about it, but I did go to the Wisp all the time. So we skied a lot and I loved skiing and I don't know. Are you anywhere near up there still?
I've go around Deep Creek. I'm not really big into skiing.
Is there snow on the ground right where you just came from?
It snowed on me on the way here. So there's a little bit of snow on the ground, but I don't think there's any skiable powder right now.
How far are you from Deep Creek?
I'm right in Morgantown. So I'm about 20, 30 minutes, 40 minutes, probably about 40 minutes.
You're right in Morgantown. Yeah. And be you brother. The mountains are beautiful. It's beautiful. It really is. It's so peaceful up there. The snow and like, and you guys get it like, that's like a regular thing every year for you. Oh yeah. Yeah. So it's hit or miss for us, man. We did get a good snow storm a couple of weeks ago and honestly, I'm good with it on the weekend and get in and get out. Like yesterday it snowed for like an hour and we had like one guy call out, but it was 48 and sunny by two o'clock. You know what I mean? It's gone. So I was like, that's what I'm talking about. Give me a day and then get out of here. Cause I run a roofing company and hell you got the same thing, but I would imagine, and let's get into it. We just spent the first, excuse me, by the way, you got to understand, like he brought up something that drew up some real, that was a core memory unlock for me. And those are like some of the best days of my life. And then like the beginning of the end. So it was like, man, that was awesome. And then right after that's when things just completely crashed and my whole life was ruined.
But you know, I'm glad I just took you on that emotional.
You have no idea what you just did, but it's all good, man. But I appreciate that. Uh, where you're from is, uh, one of the places I still frequent when I do go skiing, which we have plenty of other options, but I just love deep. I love WISP deep creep as I'm usually on my birthday, which was last month, my wife, gets us a little house in Deep Creek, up on the mountains, and we'll go up there for the weekend, and hopefully there's snow, and we just relax. The snow calms me down. Not much slows me down, but an active snow, I don't know what it is, it's so quiet and peaceful, dude. I don't know, I envy you, man. So tell me about what, first and foremost, you came over here because you were a member of the Ballers community, correct? So I wanna shout that out. Remember the blue collar ballers community, which is a free Facebook group. He's not a paid member of the, of the group or anything like that, which matters not. I mean, our community is the community that is free. Everything else is just like, Hey, you want to learn some stuff and everything. That's wonderful. We have a place for that, but the community I think is dope. I think it's really cool. What's going on in there. It's growing quickly. It's just a cool group of people that like, we're not asking anybody for money. We just ask that everybody go in there and contribute and give value.
That's it. I'm a big fan of the community because there's other Facebook communities that don't 100% recognize my whole service area. And like, if I'm not roofing like the rest of you guys, or if I'm not hanging steel, I don't count, but in the blue collar ballers, we've had people come on the lives and contribute into the Facebook posts. They're in the landscaping field and all the way up to roofing and massive construction.
I do. That's my favorite part about it too, man, which is funny. Cause I mean, from a demographic standpoint and like, you know, if it were all about like, oh, I'm, you know, we're only doing this for X, it would be easier to concentrate that demographic to one, especially for me, you know, like we're doing blue collar ballers roofing edition, but that's this, that's, that's a whole different, like that's a, what would you call that?
Say it off.
No. Well, yeah, yes and no. Yes. It's a, it's a concentration on one group. So yes, but, You know, you do live events and those live events, like, so it's not like the big, like when we do one trust and believe, like what I think we're going to do is one for like everybody, but we definitely want to have representatives of as many of those groups as we possibly can. It could be you, you know what I mean? Like, but that's what I love is there's so freaking many that it's like so hard to get like a rep from everything. Cause to your point, I see who comes in, you know, we're the ones usually like I'll still go in and let people in because We've gotten way more choosy as the group's gotten bigger. It's like, all right, we're not just letting, you know, if you don't answer the questions, I'm not letting you in. If you don't, if I don't see that you have some kind of blue collar service, like someone might sneak in, but then we see them post something. Like I saw a guy post something the other day. Yeah. And I'm like, strike one, dude, do it again. You know what I mean? Like, but we don't want that, you know? And, uh, if you don't have some direct blue collar, either work for a company, own a company, you're not, you're out. So, But I love that too, man. I love that it's so diverse. And speaking of diverse, I mean, talk about what you do. I mean, like, what is it that your company specializes in? When'd you get started? Tell us the story of how you got into what you got into.
So I'm definitively diverse in every manner that I can imagine. We have six different companies flying underneath the same flag, but flying separate flag. I can get into that a little bit later. And, uh, I think I started just about like everyone else that bootstrapped their way. I was, you know, 15 and I cut grass and that's just like the most American dream story kind of replaced the paper route. And I took that and I was serious about it from the start. Um, I had a cutting grass at 15. Yeah. I had employees before I left high school. Wow. Hell yeah, man. Talk about entrepreneurial spirit. I love it. No, um, so we would have, uh, different trucks and we were parked out in the high school parking lot and I got these cheap Vista print magnets hanging on the doors and they were, you know, beat up trucks. I mean, we're kids, right? You're 15. Yeah. Did you have any trucks? 15 push up to 17. We were getting, we were growing in that manner. And honestly, that was more of an ego thing. Looking back now, that was obviously ran horribly. I was 17 years old, but, uh, so we started out with just a landscaping company and I took all that and I grew up in a very rural part of West Virginia down in Doddridge County and the shout out daughters. Yeah. Go Bulldogs. And, uh, like the town's population was 600 people and that was the biggest town in the County. That's where everyone had to go to 600 people, 600 people. median income well below the national poverty level. Wow. Great place to start a business. That was a great place to start a business. And, uh, I graduated high school. I went out to WVU in Morgantown and I brought the business with me, which wasn't hard because it fit in a pickup bed.
Okay. So now that makes sense. That's where you got off the W. You went to, you were a Morgantown grad.
Yep. Graduated WVU a few years ago with a bachelor's in landscape architecture.
Oh, hell yeah, dude. All right. So this guy's all right. All right. Let me sit up straight a little bit, pay a little bit more attention. Educated young man. Oh yeah, sir. Let me see. All right. All right.
So, uh, while I was there, I was trying to run a business back in Dodger's County. We had built a massive brand there. A lot of recognition. We were definitely one of the biggest of the whole four competitors in the area.
And this is still just landscaping.
Yep. Still just landscaping. Coming to Morgantown, we're doing one-off installations and designs there and managing maintenance. Consistent weekly lawn maintenance, property maintenance down in Doddridge County. And we ended up getting some massive contracts. The gated lake community is probably the epitome of like the upper echelon. We had that where there's many mansions outside of larger cities. and a massive estate that at my last count was 60 acres mowed weekly. Weekly.
Weekly. 60 acres. Weekly. With that account was, I don't know. I'm trying to do the math on my head, but.
You'd be wrong because I was not as smart as I am.
Oh, okay. All right. You were giving, you were, you were like, here's the price. And they were like, yes, we'll take that. Oh yeah. Let's put this, let's lock this in for a three year contract. Oh yeah. Yes.
Done. And we ended up running like a small satellite shop down there. It was essentially just a place to leave equipment there and not have to transport it 90 minutes one way. Cause that got obviously very time consuming and expensive, but Since that time, we have consolidated to just running out of our Morgantown location, and we got rid of our maintenance, our residential lawn maintenance division, because it was labor, you know, heavy labor requirement and a very low profit margin. I essentially kept it as long as I did. It's a lost leader, like the rotisserie chickens at Sam's Club. gets people in the door because whoever's doing your lawn, that's the person you're going to ask first on who's doing your, if you're looking for a planting project or an exterior cleaning, anything along those lines that are higher ticket items. But everybody assumes that the lawn guy, they're like a handyman and they'll do everything. Yeah, sure. I'll paint your bathroom, but that's not, uh, that's not what we do. We're specialized. and it ended up coming into a winter. Landscaping obviously is low in the winter. Got on YouTube, there's junk removal. And that is, that was our next pivot into there. It was kind of a pivot of pure desperation in the winter. Uh, we had plywood sides on little Lowe's or home Depot trailer. And obviously we've expanded that significantly, but that was our start was doing that for foreclosures for, uh, estates and single item pickups. And I started to fly it under its own name because I didn't want people to take me as being a quote unquote chuck in a truck, the kind of guy that'll, sure I'll cut your grass, I'll haul your junk. Paint your bathroom. Oh yeah. And I felt like people don't take you seriously as that, just like no contractor wants to be called a handyman to his face.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
So in the residential world, we flew under the different names of Bearcat Lawn and Landscape. Reliable removal for junk removal.
Bearcat. Dude, I don't know why in my head I had Bearclaw for like two seconds. I'm like, and I'm like, that can't be right. Bearclaw. Unless he just really likes donuts, man. I don't know. Bearclaw, but Bearcat. That makes way more sense. I don't know why that just popped up. ADHD. Continue, sir.
Cool story behind that name. I was nine when I picked it and I haven't changed it since.
You knew you wanted to hold on now. You were nine when you picked your company's name. Yep. So you knew when you were nine years old, you just wanted to be a businessman or something.
I knew when I was six, I wanted to be a businessman.
Did you know it was going to be landscaping or you just didn't know what it was going to be?
I think very early on, I knew it was going to be landscaping. I was probably the only child who flipped it from Nickelodeon to DIY and watch the landscaping shows. where they'd first bring out the dingo and start planting trees and stuff. I'm like, that's what I wanted to do from the start.
That is badass, man. That's very interesting, man. Six to nine, and you knew Bearcat at nine years old. I mean, to your point, there's a joke that some of the roofers talk about. They're like, well, yeah, I've always wanted to be a roofer. And it's like, the joke is like, no. You know what I mean? No, you didn't. You know what I mean? Like, right. But in the end, I don't know if you know who, Adam Benzman or the roof strategist is, but he's a big name in at least that industry, uh, as could you be. And that's the value. And we'll go into that in a second. I'm not going to go off on a tangent, but that is the value of pushing yourself on social media, building a brand. And it's like, well, what do I do that for? Well, the more recognizable you are, as long as you're portraying yourself in a positive light can only help, right? Like Lynn things to like Lynn credence to your capabilities. make you legitimate or recognize name or recognize brand, uh, customers, clients, clientele, basic increases. I mean, all of the above, right? As long as you brand you effectively, and you're a likable guy, you're obviously very smart. This story is like, dude, I w I knew I wanted to be in landscaping at the time. I was six to nine. I'm probably the only person in the history of the world that wanted to do that. That's a great story, man. I'm a big proponent. and fan of just like, uh, the wholesale system and the retail side. And one of it is, is creating a company story because it really gives the person like insight into who they're potentially doing business with. And that's a powerful one, dude. I would really like, it's great when it's you, but it's even better when it's your reps and they're like, Hey, here's our owner, you know, and, and WVU grad, especially locally, like WVU grad, local. knew he wanted to be, you know, Bearcat, the name came from my owner knew he wanted to do this when he was nine years old, watching, instead of watching Nickelodeon, Nickelodeon, he was watching DIY and flipped over to DIY networks at six to nine. And that's where, you know, and so we take this serious, you know, and that's how that, that love that he has has been passed on to us and the culture that we have here. No, one's going to take care of you like we will. I mean, think about that, man. Sorry. Take it, run with it, record it, do it, don't, I don't know. Whatever, it doesn't matter. That's just me. As soon as you say that, I'm like, oh, I could turn that in. People are gonna buy that, man. Some people are gonna buy that, especially because they're a likable guy. I'm just saying, man, start selling you, but go ahead and continue.
I hope they buy it. It's on the website like that.
It is? There you go. Well, that's smart. There you go. All right, so you're already pushing it. You're an educated man. I don't know. I forgot who I was talking to. College grad.
The skin of my teeth.
Bro, you, hey, at least you didn't have to get passed through. Like, you know, my last semester was like when the pain pill addiction had taken a full, like fledged addiction mode. And, uh, my professors just like, okay, just get out. You know what I mean? Like it's literally last semester that I was there. They're like, go, which I had done well enough before then, but you know, I could have not. Not that it really did anything for me graduating, because I didn't use the degree at all, but it got me, it got my foot in the door at the one sales organization that I learned the most from. I do believe they were hiring college grads and that was it. And I was one of those. So.
Prove that you were able to show up five days a week, four years straight.
Yeah, I guess, you know, that's all they were looking for. Uh, and then of course selling, but you know, now nobody cares about But sorry, so you were saying, you know, nine years old, you knew what you would actually I deviated you from that. So you were talking about the natural progression of where you were going and you were the junk removal didn't want to be seen as a jack of all trades.
So our junk removal, we labeled as reliable removal in West Virginia. And then we got into wanting to push towards exterior cleaning in the spring. It was just nothing but grinding through the internet, trying to figure out what I can do. Everything I picked was low barrier of entry, easily scalable, easily train, easily trainable. And that was kind of what I was aiming towards to not go, to not go towards like massive hardscape landscape construction or roofing. because I can take a guy and obviously easier said than done, but put him on a truck with me for a week, two, three. And then I have no hesitation putting him on a truck to go cut grass or remove junk. It's not the training that roofing requires years of experience to be good at it. Obviously there's laborers and people come in every day with zero experience, but I know exactly what you mean by like the actual
person running the job and like nailing the shingles and putting the underlayment on and making sure they do it right. Being able to know that how to determine if it's done right. I get it. Lots of variables. What about power washing?
Are we doing that? Right now we have dialed back our power washing just because of trying to dedicate more time towards the other two at the moment.
We haven't even got to hear how you got to this one yet, actually. So you're training and you're getting guys And I want you all to hear this, by the way, what he's breaking down, and all jokes aside, man, I keep joking about the educated, but clearly he is educated. Clearly this is someone who's wanted to do this since he was freaking nine years old, six to nine years old. Hear how he's, hear his thought process. I mean, he's literally verbalizing, is that a word? Yeah, he's verbal. He's articulating very clearly his thought process on, okay, what do I need to get into something quickly? Well, I need, you know, It needs to be a minimal expense, very little capital required, very low barrier of entry, easily trainable, easily scalable. Like hear him when he's saying this, because it's a smart thought process on like, okay, what else can I add and not jump into it's low risk, high reward. I mean, I hope you guys are digesting that because this is a lot of, he's giving you, he's putting you on game for free. Uh, the thought process of an entrepreneur or somebody with a good business mind and how you should be kind of running through the weighing pros and cons before jumping into something, but please continue.
But like I said, we were naming all of those services differently. They all had separate LLCs, separate accounting, separate logos, separate everything. It is a lot to juggle, but on the reward end, People are calling and they know they're getting a professional landscape company, a professional junk company. And they're, they're buying into that because it's marketed completely separate. And that works really good in the residential field. Because once I get into you, you're my client. Then you start asking me like, Hey, I know you are just a junk removal company, but do you know anybody who installs mulch and trim shrubs? Like, you're not going to believe this. And then just put on a different hat.
Right. But now that we're- Which is still better to absorb, but go ahead.
But now we're trying to angle ourselves more in B2B. Okay.
Taking care of- Less residential.
Yeah. Less residential because residential, it's just having to... Our average ticket price in residential is right between $1,000 and $1,500, but I have to deal with a a separate person for that, a separate set of their expectations, and a whole separate address. And I'm there with my crew for roughly three to six hours. But if we go up to a plaza of office rental suites, or if we go to a strip mall kind of complex, or hotels and manufacturing places, we're able to pull up, and that truck does not move. Cause every time the key turns, it costs you money, all that space in between. And you were set on that site for eight, 12 hours and sometimes more than one day a week. And we market ourselves as a one call magic key to where they don't want to have to deal with 15 different contractors, either. Whoever's the property manager, they want to make one call to me when dumpsters are overflown. It's the same. Same call, landscape maintenance, exterior cleaning. And right now we're trying to work our way into wards and obviously it's further down the line. We need more labor to get that going, but interior janitorial as well. I was going to say, man, have you considered that? Yep. It's, it's on the list of things to cross off hopefully within this year. That's the goal.
I'm really interested in talking to you more about that when you do. And I have a couple of people I can connect you to just to give you some but I've seen the folks doing it. And you're probably like myself, man, right? Like you see somebody doing something and then like, you've kind of weighed them as a, how can I say this politely? But like, you're like, well, if you can do it, I can definitely do it. You know what I mean? Like, I love you to death, but I don't know. And look, I lost a whole bunch of brain cells, but I still have enough in there to be like, you know, just a slightly average above average. And I say that in jest, you know, Of course, I believe in myself just like you do. But like I said, there's a few folks you've met and you're like, Hal, if you can do this, I can definitely do it. And I say that about a few people I know do that, but I love them to death. And I also feel like just hiring some of them myself, negotiating some price point. I can't imagine what they're really paying those folks. I mean, so I feel like it's good margin for relatively like, Anyhow, we'll talk more about it. Like, what are you doing? You're stocking cleaning supplies. Some of the times we pay for some of the stuff, like we have it here. They're just using ours. Like that point, it's like, dude, it's almost just labor, you know?
Right. Like I broke down a cleaning crew and my guys I've looked on Indeed and seen my competitors ads for landscape crew leads, landscape laborers. My guys are near the higher end of what other people are offering being paid. And then. Getting into like commercial cleaning. I've done the math. Like you break it down, you got a minivan, you got, you know, some equipment that's available at your local big box hardware store and you're in the game for less than two, three grand.
Yeah. That would make total sense. And then again, low barrier of entry, low barrier of entry, low risk. And you can, and what I also like about the type of service you do is I'm assuming it's Contract based like year to year, month to month, like how does that work?
So we market it two different ways. Like I'll just focus on the landscaping portion of it. We are usually an annual recurring service provider for a lot of the residential people. And then for commercial and some higher end residential, we put them on a quarterly contract of us coming in and essentially just overseeing anything that comes up because no one who works at a commercial location, they don't know who to call if a bush is dying. They don't know who above them would be in charge of that kind of thing. We would go over there and we would have a predetermined allowable expense to keep everything to between a B plus A plus grade of the appearance of the exterior of the building. And obviously, you know, on call stuff such as tractor trailer swung the turn too sharp and went over the median.
Yeah. Took out a nasty big chunk of our plants and stuff.
Yeah. And then we can mobilize out there and all that. sod isn't really a huge thing out there.
I guess I'm just thinking of that scenario where you might need to pick some grass. I don't know.
No, it's, it's just, it would, that would just be like top soil, you know, leveling and seeding and it will come back in this time.
What about, and I have to ask you this, like when you were saying, oh man, you know, winter, we got to figure out some things. I already know you thought about this because of where you live, but like snow removal, a big, an option or a big option, or it's just so freaking crazy, like saturated. It's like, yeah, dude, good luck. It was like, 50 people in my neighbors.
It's a viable option, but for me at this current time, all of my guys that have came to work for me have been younger dudes who are completely content with understanding this is a seasonal business and not feeling the need to stay on 12 months a year. They know it. They see it coming because James doesn't do snow. No part of me wants to wake up at 3 a.m. in the freezing cold and go slam my truck into a curb for hopefully $45 a driveway in that kind of market area.
But. You're talking driveways and stuff. Yeah.
Well, the money I think is.
Yeah.
Commercial contracts. Once we get heavier in a commercial and we can justify keeping machinery and materials on site and being able to either have. Employees drive their own vehicle straight to the site or just send out a truck with no equipment But they're on a contract basis whether it snows or not. I'm still getting a check Because people in the residential it's a pay-per-push you come out when it snows and We pay you are agreed upon your eyes.
I would never do that in residential. I know when you after saying that No, but but the ones I know that do commercial I guess I only know ones that do commercial to be honest with you and we don't get it much out here, but they like clamor over that. Like, yes, I'm going to get snow in the night. Cause they got the County contract or whatever, you know? And I'm like, all right, they're paying. I, they gotta be paying. You know how that goes, dude. So you get yourself a County contract or a school or two, or you get hooked up with like, you know, you do the game, dude. You get hooked up with a couple of the local business spots. And I'm assuming like three or four property management companies are more prevalent than others. And You know, like you said, like, hey, give me a call if it snows, man, and we'll come out and we'll do it. And like you said, the rate's predetermined. Everything's predetermined. Everything's good. But I was curious, given that you're in the mountains.
That's further down the line once we get to that point. But I am fighting it off as long as I can. Once I start losing significant contracts to us not being able to provide snow as well, or once I start... Does it snow enough up there? It's honestly touch and go. We have good winners and bad winners. Like right now, snow guys all across the country are just like losing money hand over fist. And they've got $25,000 worth of equipment bolted to an $80,000 truck and it's sitting in the driveway.
My wife's like, what's going on this year? I'm like, okay, baby, we did get one that like here shuts us down for two weeks, but like, it was just really cold that week too. So like, it just didn't go anywhere, but it's disappointing, man. Cause when I hear what you're at, I'm like, It's snow man, all the time.
No, not, not all the time. Very thankful for that.
He's like, yeah, hell no. I don't want that. When you tell me, don't put that on me, man. I love the snow dude. But to your point, I like to like come down here and not be in the snow. I don't want it to affect my business, which for you, it negatively affects your business. Right. So I agree. Sorry. I don't want to put that on you until you're in the snow. In which case I wish you plenty of snow. So what's where you're at now, where is. Where is Bearcat at now, and where do you see Bearcat in the very near future? We've already talked about some of it, but how old are you? 25. You're 25 years old. You graduated school, I'm assuming, a couple of years ago? A couple, three. 22? 23. Three. Three years ago this April. Three years ago. Your degree is literally in something completely and totally relevant to what you do. I mean, you're poised for, I'd be really, if you're comfortable, I'd love to hear what your, your five, you know, your annual, and we don't have to talk revenue if you're not comfortable, but like, I can tell you for us, you know, our goal is, Hey, look, we want to reach 50 million gross by 2026, January 30th, December 31st, 2026, 50 million gross, 20% net 10 million EBITDA hope to attract private equity at that rate, the coveted 10 X, which would be a hundred million. That's the goal. So we can talk about that candidly because that's the goal. Right. And so I don't know if that's something you're comfortable, but I suppose you could relevant or relate that to like, Hey, we're looking at a four X, uh, next year, you know, these are the goals just to give our listeners that provide some value, you know, don't have to give us the numbers in terms of like, but projections goals, where are you going? What are you doing? What's the future for bear cat?
So right now, to kind of wrap up my how I got here story. Oh, sorry. No, it plays really into this.
ADHD is a hell of a thing, man. It's sorry, dude. ADHD has me in five different locations currently right now. In all of your story, I'm taking snow, and I'm skiing on one lobe of my brain. And the other one, I'm still stuck on snow removal. And then, you know, I'm somewhere watching you in the back, creepily watch, you know, DIY lawn shows as a nine-year-old still like five stories that you just told me going on in my head at one point. So please wrap up and then we'll get into where you're going and where the future has.
Yeah. So full transparency, I have a 40 hour a week salary job while I still manage this. I'm out of the field.
Yes. And you've been doing this for 15, since 15 and nine, you knew you wanted to do it. You still have a 40 hour week.
Yep. So, um, a couple of years ago, how'd you come down here today? Did you take off? Oh, 100%.
It's dedication, man. That's what PTO is for. Oh yeah. Well, yeah. So you've got a good job.
You've got a government job or no. I work for a large, uh, civil engineering company in the mid Atlantic. You're an engineer. I'm a landscape architect. They hire us.
I could tell though, his personality type, he reminds me of. And he's an engineer. He's one of my best friends. He's a fractional, he's our fractional CFO. You have a very similar personality type. So I could, that's why I was like, you said simple engineering, but I would guess there's the path is similar, right?
So it's, it's extremely similar. I work hand in hand with them 40 hours a week.
And you probably are paid well.
I do okay.
So I get it. He's doing the same thing. Actually, it's kind of funny. He literally still has a 40 hour a week, uh, government contractor position, but he's over that and he's ready for us to, you know, we were, we, frankly, we're just like, dude, we have got to get ourselves to a point. We still have a couple more hires to make to like complete. We have to, you know, because where we are, where we are at scaling into not just one new market, but two as a satellite or not still. Here is the foundational home base piece that, you know, we then do most of our production and operations here to help the other offices that are doing sales and, you know, quality assurance. That's it, right? Like they're selling and we'll have a PM on the job, but we do all the rest back in here. Well, we have to be able to facilitate 35 million here. So we need to get a couple more hires in because, you know, that's a four X five X over last year. Um, point being Kevin's not going to be cheap. So we're like, well, see where we're at by the end of the year, man. It's for us to really get them to walk away to your same reason. You're not PTO. I'm assuming you've got some kind of comp package.
No, that is not the reason I'm not walking.
Okay. Please do, uh, do tell.
So, um, a couple of years ago, uh, my father passed away and he was never a huge fan of the whole entrepreneur thing. He'd do anything for me, but he definitely wasn't like, go out and do that. Go be your own boss. He, he wasn't all for that.
So I made my dad was the same way.
I made some major life changes really quick. Um, within. Two to three weeks of him passing away, I signed on with this company and shrunk my company drastically, but I refused to get rid of it. They asked and I'm like, I'm not, I'm not getting rid of my brand. I have guys working out there right now that are trained, they can handle their own self. It's not like I'm going to be leaving work every day to go, you know, cut grass like two in the afternoon. I think that's what they were concerned about. I'm only working there because that's what my father would have wanted at the time. And I don't know what kind of feeling I thought I was going to get from that. But it ain't, it ain't. You don't have it. It ain't feeling it.
Yeah. The feeling ain't feeling. And not to mention, man, and I don't mean to be like, my dad's the same way. And he has since just recently retired and he was in here yesterday, but he ended up coming to work for me a couple of years in, you know, it's just two companies. And finally him seeing like, Okay. You know, like they just don't, you're a borderline engineer. So if I would love to see your disc assessment, my guess is, I mean, you're a risk taker enough to be an entrepreneur, but you got this 40 hour a week work. I would love to see your disc assessment, but anyhow, that's another story. But my point is, is guys like our fathers, first of all, I believe it's a certain era, but still there was businessmen in there. There's people who see that that way, and that's what the DISC assessment really talks about. There's other things, Myers-Briggs, DISC. There's other personality type assessments that we can do, but bottom line is it just further proves that there's some people that think that way and some people that don't. There's some people that take risks like that. There's some people that don't. NLP goes into the values levels of consciousness, and it's an entire values level where you're at, and a lot of it ties into money and work. I value security over everything else, right? Like, so I don't, I'm not going to be an entrepreneur, but I do need security. I need recognition. I need point being you thinking a different way just means that like, that's just the way your mind works quite literally. Like, but recognizing that they think differently. It's also important, right? Cause my dad and I were always like at odds, right? Like I just, you don't speak my language. I don't speak yours. You don't support me. It's not that he just worried, you know what I mean? Like to him, it was like, you're a freaking his father's same way, Jamaican, like traditional, you need to go be a police officer. Like that's just, it's not because they're jerks or anything like that. It's like, that's stable. That's safe. And they need safe. They need stable. They care about their children. They want, but safe, never made safe and entrepreneur. don't mix, right? Like entrepreneur ism is inherently, you got to have that like lack of fear and the ability to move quick and the ability to jump and just kind of see what happens. And you clearly have that.
I live off of the fear and the drive. And like, if I don't make it work, then I got to tell people that I didn't make it work. Essentially. Like, I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to crumble down from where, from what I've built up. Um, I had an offer to sell out a couple, I think it was last year, had an offer to sell out for a one and a half times or 225% of the value of the assets. So someone told me essentially on paper that the work that I've put in and the brand that I had built was worth right in the ballpark of a quarter million dollars just to sell out. And that's without any recurring contracts. Everything is, you know, annual and no one is on a five-year contract. Everyone is on a one or a two.
But, you know, that was a little bit of an off tangent there, but- We want to get that number up to where it's like, I want to get your EBITDA up to like one, two, you know what I mean? And then you're like, cool. Give me an 8X on that 2 million. Serious. It's a game, brother. We're gonna get you there.
I understand. One of these days I'm gonna get there. I'm gonna get you there.
Especially after I make my exit. I was getting ready to say. Well, you got two exits to make now. Yeah. Right, like one we got to get you back. Safe ain't, safe ain't. Safe, it's the, it's such, it's just ironic, man. Because like safe, especially these days, is like just enough to keep you fucking broke. You know what I mean?
Or like- J.O.B.
just over broke. Dude, right? Yes. Right? Yeah. J.O.B. And that's literally, that's my favorite acronym. J.O.B. You know what that stands for, right? Just over broke. And it's literally the case. Like, unless you're like a government official or politician that somehow makes, you know, a quarter million, which is a damn good living. You're already in the 1%, but then you turn into being worth like millions. You know, after you got elected to office, I don't know how they all do it, but outside of that, you know, and there's, of course there's certain jobs, doctors, lawyers, but like, man, and even then the private practice is, trounces that, right? So I would love to see you get back in full-time, but you've put too much since you were a kid. I promise you this much, your dad just wanted safety and security. That's it. He just wanted to know you were safe. That's it, right? He doesn't speak that language.
The more I think about near the end, he was on board with, man, you've, you've done something. I had a video and I lost on the phone. It was like the first time he was ever, I recognized that he was all for this. I have one of my guys working for me. We had just done a massive property cleanup down trees and everything. I had to have my dad come out and drive a truck for me. And he stops his truck right in front of the camera and says, no, the Bearcat job finished. But the video is gone now. So I think he did just want safety for me. He was a government employee. But I do think he was, you know, starting to recognize that this is a viable lifestyle and one that is going to completely make my life satisfactory to me. Because- It's all that matters.
Oh, yeah. We need to have an update. It's unacceptable. We need a, we need a conclusion here.
What's the timeline timeline we're looking at right in the ballpark of, uh, 10 months from now. I know that puts you in his pickle, obviously, but 10 months from now, if we're able to do that 10 months from now before I, and I'm able to do it tomorrow, like I'll figure it out the lack of, The security that a job offers is only that only one person has to tell me to kick rocks before I have no cashflow coming in. Versus being an entrepreneur, and especially in the service based business, there has to be hundreds of people tell me to kick rocks before I'm broke. Like that, to me, a job is like the opposite of security. I gotta make one person mad and I'm getting evicted within three months.
It's a very good way to think about that. 10 months, possibly before?
Possibly before, but I'm not in a hurry within this year to leave because right now I have everything built out since I've left to be sufficient without me being there 9 to 5.
I get it. I get it. I get it. It's still, you've got, done your job, you've done your work towards autonomous and it's still, but like, we want to grow, build, scale, grow, scale this thing, man.
Like I'm, I'm still probably hustling an extra 30 to 40 hours a week. I couldn't tell you the last time there was just a straight day off that wasn't maybe Christmas. And it's just trying to get things in place. Cause right now I'm trying to operate a lot of what I do as essentially just being a GC. Acting in that manner and subbing out my constituents that are obviously well qualified for the exact tasks that they're doing and I am able to Make a pretty decent business out of just that just that Avenue right there and it is getting me to the point where I am I Ready to leave. I'm also getting married this year. So that's another. Oh, yeah, brother.
Thank you. What's the wife think about all that? She supports it. Obviously, you wouldn't be.
Oh, yeah. She was here when I was full time and she's been here through it all, man. And she's 100 percent on board with going to get Bearcat pop. Yeah. The affectionately called Bearcat Empire.
There you go. Oh, yeah. We're going to get the Bearcat. Bearcat Empire has got to take over WVU and then it's covered into Maryland and P.A. period. I want to see updates on this. So I have you back on in 10 months and it's going to be very embarrassing if you come back on like, well, I didn't jump yet, but I'm really thinking about it. And in the meantime, man, I'd actually love to work with you a little bit. I obviously, my time is very limited. And I say that like, I'm not asking you for any money or anything. I'd love to help you any way I can. Cause I, I can be a damn shame for you not to push too much, but I've had to do the opposite. You know, I've got three companies myself and I know, and so I admire what you've done. Cause I know just the semantics, you know, like the holding company, the management company, the LLCs and the management company to run. It's just the books and all that doing it the right way. Uh, but for me in this year, like I've had to say, okay, the consulting company, even last year, backseated, you know, Baden consulting took on one client. It was a solar company that now, however, we know, okay, cool. Anybody in solar, which is doing really poorly right now, wants to learn insurance restoration. We can tell you effectively that we can get you up and running in 90 days. And we've got white labelable material for you to make that happen. We're doing some courses now. Most of that's for my actual, my internal PCR roofing, the company itself, but that's the focus. And I say that. Uh, because I'm kind of like in the opposite end of that pendulum where I'm like, all right, I got these three companies here, but this is the baby. You know what I mean? And like, I've just like you been pushing and pushing and pushing now, although I've gone through different companies, partnerships, partnership, breakups, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, this is the thing where it's like, this is real, you know, to me as an entrepreneur, our duty is multifaceted, but ideally, if you truly are that entrepreneur that you clearly are. Build, scale, sell. And I say sell in that you should build, scale, and build to sell. If nothing else, you don't have to sell, but you're able to sell. Build a company worth selling. It's the worst case you build a company worth selling that's clearly making money. And it's there if you ever run into an opportunity. It's good enough.
You know what I mean? That was another thing that led me to managing these all as separate brands. Because the only name that's never leaving James Hef on the fourth is Bearcat. Any of these other brands up for sale, once they get to a point where someone is going to bring me an offer, that is a reasonable opportunity for me to consider it. But for me, my goal is to build something that is 100% sellable, whether I do it or it's after I'm gone and just be able to leave a good enough mark. in my market, my neighborhood, my community, to where people understand who we are and what we do, and more importantly, what we're worth.
I love it, man. That's awesome. That's a really great place. So first, not first of all, lastly, where can people find you? Where's the best place to find information about you, James the fourth and Bearcat?
So, um, you can find me. I have a pretty decent following on tech talk at BC entrepreneur. And, uh, you can find me on Instagram at half one Ivy and on Facebook, I'm just James half on the fourth. You'll see my beautiful face wearing a suit and tie and somebody else's wedding.
Awesome, man. And it's all the bear cat stuff is all just associated with.
It's easily findable. If you find me on any of the social media, that's pretty well all I post about.
My whole life is part of the Bearcat. Gotta get Bearcat. Number one, dude. You got a good TikTok? We don't really do much. We gotta get TikTok. No, you don't.
Not checked.
I know. We're supposed to be posting on there. I know we do, but we ain't doing crap. I know, but his point is valid. I just got one like two months ago. We stopped, we didn't really use it. I'm like, are we posting on TikTok? Like, no, I'm like, cool. Can we start doing that? Because, you know, I'm paying you guys to post on social media. Just saying. No big deal. It's all good. I've only been doing the whole social media, in all fairness, I'm not bragging on them, like, not this past October, but the October before. So like a year and a couple of months before that, my Facebook was private. My Instagram, I deleted sort of on accident. I wanted to change my password or something. I couldn't figure it out. I don't know. I would got all crazy about the COVID stuff. And I was like, I'm just, I'm like, I can't be on here. It's just like pissing me off too much delete. And then I got to get back in and it's like, Oh, sorry. You know, it's been too long, like 30 days or something. So I lost my Insta. Not that I had like millions of followers, but you know, So anyhow, and then tick tock, I just, uh, but now, man, my biggest thing with social was more like, Hey, this is a brand that I'm building, which is myself, but you know, which is why I take the time. Like, Hey, at lunch, I'm going to, you know, I try not to let it bleed into my day to day, which is why I do like noon five, six, you know, whenever I can possibly, we've got the mayor coming on next week of Annapolis. Like, you know, we've got a lot of, uh, local, we've had some real cool local businesses come on. You know, it's networking, man. I mean, this is a valuable asset, you and I getting a chance to meet and sit down and promote your brand. But now I know somebody in the community that you're in, in the area that you're in, and you never know I'll be of value to you. You know what I mean? Hopefully we can be of value to you, James, because truly, people need to know who James IV is. And I want to say Hepburn? Hepburn?
Heflin, man.
Heflin. I thought you said Hepburn IV.
No, James Heflin.
James Hepburn IV. I'm just kidding. Heflin. Heflin. Heflin. Heflin. Heflin, Heflin, Heflin, Heflin, Heflin, Heflin, Heflin, Heflin. James Heflin IV. James, let him say it, dude. James Heflin IV. I say this seriously because in all seriousness, I want to make sure he gets all the recognitions. I don't know. What's Hepburn? Audrey Hepburn? Yep. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, I know there's a famous Hepburn somewhere. Why was that in my head? James Heflin IV, Bearcat coming at you. Need to freaking find yourself some Bearcat stuff. Don't get my name wrong again, kid. It is Heflin, not Hepburn. James, appreciate you coming on, dude. Having a good time with us. Driving all the way from West Virginia, man.
100% worth it.
I, uh, I hope so, man. I hope we have, I honestly, this is a great episode. I think people are going to love it. They're going to love you more importantly. You're hard not to like, man. And I hope that this blows up for you, man. And, uh, any last words before we jump?
I was excited to come here. Uh, I told Roger, I woke up three hours early this morning, like accidentally swung past the shop on my way in. I got here an hour early, but, uh, it's such a go ahead. If you guys are trying to start your own thing and you're still in a 40 hour week or you're in high school or you're in college, cause I know there's some young guys in the blue collar ballers community.
And we'll make sure we put this in there. So listen up.
I was, uh, I was talking with a friend who is a fellow entrepreneur. He's quite a bit older than me. And I was telling him that what we've been going on this winter was a complete reconstruction of the brand and our complete, uh, management and our, uh, staff, staff responsibilities chart. We were talking on how much time I'm putting into it and he said, man, you got to take some time for yourself. And while that is true, you do need to take some time and you can either ask him what you've created or you can completely get away from it. I told him that this is all going to pay off in the end. And if it doesn't, I'm going to die doing it. And I'm completely OK with that. So. If people are telling you to chill out, take it with a grain of salt, you do need to refresh yourself. You got to get away. That's why you see everyone who is doing what you're doing at a level that you're trying to get to on vacation and away. You know, the guys that are posting with the fake rented watches and the Lambos don't buy into that too much.
Do not buy into that too much because to his point, by the way, I have real mentors here that nobody really knows. Some do, some don't. We just posted an episode of walking around. Adam Champagne's a CEO of Home Fix and like six other companies here locally. You know, Tope is his mentor and Tope's the owner of majority of all of this. And now Adam's an owner and it's just, guy's probably worth collectively that those companies are hundreds of millions. I don't know what Adam's portion is. That doesn't matter. He's just like, it's a very successful individual. Him, John from MLM, like Adam is like a robot. Like, sure, he'll go on a family vacation here and there, and he does his dad duties, but like, these guys work their asses off to get where they're at. Make no mistake about it, right? So like, I love what you're saying, man. Yes. If you only see vacations and stuff, they either work their asses off already to get there, or they're probably full of shit. I don't know. I don't know. Just my two cents. Mine, personally. Because I can tell you, me personally, for the first four years, I didn't take a fucking day off. And I was nothing. And I don't mean to say that like, I meant like I wasn't even an entrepreneur. I mean, maybe, maybe for two of those years, but the first two years I was rebuilding my life. I don't know how much of my story, you know, but like I had nothing. And so I was just like trying to just catch up at all and working as a handyman or working as in back in sales. But like, I didn't take any days off. That's not necessary, but. Don't let somebody, I think that the people who often say that stuff, their intentions are good. But then again, like they just, again, I think it's just different, different mindsets, man. Like they don't understand it.
Obvious answer. You never took a day off where you're at now. Was it worth it? Yeah. A hundred percent. Exactly.
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. And I still do that. That's really the point. If you ask anybody in the office, I said something on this. I said, Hey, look, this Sunday, this Sunday, I'm not doing anything, just prepping everybody and prefacing like, look, you know, I'm not going to be doing anything for work this Sunday. You know what I mean? I think, I feel like that speaks for most, like most people assume I'm going to be doing something somehow related to one of the companies or something for work. And even then they're like, all right, dude, right. That's it. You know what I mean? But I love it, man. It's because I enjoy it. I love the pursuit. And to your point, where we're going in the lifestyle, we're pursuing like, of course I want to do all those things. I went on my first honeymoon, my first honeymoon, my first, I hope my first and last honeymoon, but my first chance of leaving the country and going anywhere other than like locally. And we went to Greece, but there's something on my face that I can see that's like driving me nuts, a piece of dirt, I don't know, but light. It feels like there's like something like right here and I'm like, hold up. Anyhow, We went to Greece. It was beautiful. God, what was it? Not Sicily. I should know. It's pretty embarrassing. It's one of the islands in Greece. But honestly, I don't really know much about it. Even having gone, I was just like, this is dope. My wife did all that. So I was like, wonderful. I can't tell you a single island in Greece. Yeah, it was amazing, dude. It was amazing. And anyhow, I want to do that more. Of course I do. But the way I get to do that more is by securing and positioning I don't want to just be able to afford to do that once or once in a while. I want to be able to, the way my brain works, I want to be able to take a private jet and bring my dogs. Like I literally said that when we were out there and I was like, man, you know, this is awesome. I just wish we had our dogs. And you say that's weird. I don't care. Right? Like call it my kids, my dogs, the people and the people that I care about and value. I want to be able to bring everybody. Or I was like, we should do a company trip here. You should give me an idea how much that would be. I don't want to care. Right. Like, I don't want to have to care about that. I want to be able to bring the people. So that's what I think. And like, that's where I think getting to that point to where it's like, I can go when and if I want, whenever I want. And I want to just be able to afford to be able to go once. Right. And I want my family and my people to be able to come with me. That's what I'm working for.
I mean, that's freedom. I'll wrap it up right there. That's freedom. We're working towards freedom to do what you want when you want.
It's funny. Sutton says that all the time. A guy that works with me was like, you know, I'm not a big like money, money, money, but I am a big freedom guy. And he's like factually in this country and in this world today, got to have money to have the freedom you want. So it's a fact, man. Thank you so much for coming on. Bearcat, check it out. The name's not going anywhere, and he is Mr. Bearcat himself. We're going to make sure it pops and it comes back. He's got 10 months to do it because we're going to call him back on. And he's in the blue collar baller community, so we're just going to stay on him.
He's going to call me out. 100%. All day, every day.
All day, every day. We're going to actively be posting just to make sure that Bearcat makes it.
He's 815 every morning. Ken's going to be on there asking, hey, did you quit yet?
That's right. I might even do a live next week and just call you on, but we'll just see. Every week, we'll just do a live to see what the status is on whether or not he's still working or not.
I watch all of those lives from my office.
Yeah? Yeah. That's why, you know, we were thinking, we're like, we need to change the times on these, man. Like, ain't nobody ever coming. I'm like, well, it's three o'clock Eastern, which means everywhere else is behind us. So like, it's just the middle of the day, right? Like in the middle of the day on a Friday, like, dude, I can't jump on, I'm working. I'm like, all right, we need to change the times on these. You know, I figured like most people doing what we do, that's blue collar, like they're out working. You know what I mean? Like not everybody's sitting in an office, like.
All the guys that get called on, I've seen them that they're sitting in a truck.
They're in trucks. So we were like, all right, we need to, I thought three o'clock would be a good time. Cause it's like, for us, it's a good time, but not for anybody else. So we'll push it back. But anyhow, James, thank you so much for coming on. It's been an absolute pleasure, man.
Thank you, Ken. I'm more than happy to be here and bring any value I can to anybody.
I think you bring a ton of value. I really do. Seriously. I think you brought a ton of value. I think people are going to love this episode. I'm looking forward to seeing the response from it, man. And I look forward to having you back. We're going to have you back. We're going to have you back. You're close enough for you to come out here and not even screwed up. We're going to have you back. I look forward to it. We'll catch you on the next one, man.
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