In episode 36 of The Kitchen Table, Ken Baden is joined by Nick Hutchison, a book enthusiast and sales expert. They discuss the importance of reading for entrepreneurs and success-seekers. Ken and Nick also highlight the belief that the right book, chosen and implemented effectively, has the potential to profoundly change someone's life.
Tune in to gain valuable insights into the power of books and their impact on personal and professional growth.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:01:34] Love for Books and Sales.
[00:09:56] Self-Publishing vs Traditional Publishing.
[00:15:12] Door-To-Door Sales Experience.
[00:19:19] Top Personal and Professional Development Books.
[00:20:03] Creating Irresistible Offers.
[00:25:05] Delegating and Time Management.
[00:27:22] Finding Time to Read.
[00:32:26] Multi-Sensory Reading Experience.
[00:36:38] Custom Book Recommendations.
[00:40:30] Morning Routines and Success.
In this episode, Ken Baden and Nick Hutchison engage in a discussion about a product that can greatly enhance the benefits of self-help books. Nick emphasizes that their product is specifically designed to help individuals effectively implement the ideas and concepts from these books into their lives. It is tailored towards personal and professional development books, as well as self-help books. The conversation also delves into the idea that the right book at the right time can be life-changing. Both Ken and Nick emphasize the importance of selecting the appropriate book and effectively implementing what is learned from it.
Furthermore, the episode highlights the concept of writing books as a means to share valuable knowledge and experiences. Nick emphasizes that everyone has lived unique lives and possesses specific skills that can be condensed into a book. By writing a book, individuals can provide value to others who may be a few steps behind them. Additionally, the process of writing a book compels individuals to reflect on their own behavior, analyze their story, and teach it to others, which can be a transformative and valuable experience in itself.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Ken Baden
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheKenBaden
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bluecollarcloser/
Nick Hutchison
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bookthinkers/
Facebook: https://www.instagram.com/nicklovesbooks/
WEBSITE:
The Kitchen Table Podcast: https://thekitchentablepodcast.net/
Intro/Outro00:03 - 00:16
Welcome to the Kitchen Table, a podcast about where business is done. So pull up a chair and join your host, Ken Baden.
Ken Baden00:16 - 00:33
Welcome back to another episode of the Kitchen Table podcast, where business is done. I've got my man, Nick, is it Hutchison? Yes. Am I saying that right? I mean, it's really hard to pronounce. So, I mean. It's a very unusual last name. I'm kidding. Nick Hutchison in here. Nick, how are you, brother?
Nick Hutchison00:33 - 00:41
I am good, man. Excited for the opportunity to share my love of books and sales with you guys today. So yeah, I'm excited.
Ken Baden00:41 - 01:14
Well, obviously you led with the most interesting part, books, right? That captivated everybody right off the bat. So if you guys weren't already leaned in, get ready because we're talking books today. And I say that actually totally in jest because if you're not an avid reader and you call yourself an entrepreneur or a high-level person or somebody chasing success and you dismiss that, I can't tell you how easily written off you'll be from people who really are high-level people and pursuing success. So what's up, man? I mean, tell us a little bit about how you got so involved in the world of books, first of all.
Nick Hutchison01:14 - 02:56
Yeah, well, growing up, I was not much of a reader, which would surprise anybody that can see this video today, because I have like 1,000 books behind me. I was more of the athlete stereotype, not much of the academic. You couldn't pay me to read a book when I was growing up. And that behavior sort of followed me into college, but things started to change when I went to college. First, I ran my own house painting business for two summers. I hired all my buddies. I went door to door, knocking on neighbors' houses, setting up estimates, going back, closing deals. We could do a deep dive on that in a minute. But going into my senior year, I took an internship at a local software company for a sales position. And my boss at the time, recognized that I had about an hour commute each way to this job every day of the week. And he said to me something like, Nick, listen, I know you love music, but listening to the same song for the 1000th time, it's not going to get you closer to where you want to be in life. But the right podcast might. So that's where I started. I started by listening to business podcast shows like this, where a host interviews a series of guests and the guests talk about what they did to become successful. So I'll kind of wrap it up here. in that as I was commuting back and forth, crushing shows, listening to everything, I realized that so many of the people that I wanted to be like, the successful people, they were giving at least some credit for their success to the books that they were reading. So I just kind of had a moment, sort of like you said in the intro a minute ago, like if I was deliberately choosing not to read these books, then I was also deliberately choosing to live under my potential. And I was too competitive for that. So I went to a local Barnes and Noble, got a bunch of books, and the rest is history.
Ken Baden02:56 - 04:42
Hell yeah, man. So I really love that's a complete, well, first of all, it's a total antithesis of what you would think of when you're thinking like, I don't know, man, like book nerd or something like that, which just isn't the case. I mean, like anybody that I follow and anybody that's listening to this show probably follows. I mean, everybody pushes. What are your four favorite books, what are your five favorite books, read, read, read, readers or leaders? I mean, so that's been dismissed for a long time, but it just, I love the fact that you were like, you know, jock to, you know, now my world is books. But I mean, if I had to guess, you already mentioned a few key points to like, that high level individual, high level person where you're competitive, you wanna succeed in life. And one big key component in that is being an avid reader because they tend to hide a lot of this valuable information on how you can succeed and do good things in business. They hide these things in books. I don't know if you guys know that, but some of this younger generation, you may not, but they do hide them in there. And you can find this information at your local Barnes and Noble or hitting up somebody like Nick but the guy doesn't look or fit the profile. If you're seeing him right now, I mean, we're kind of got the same hair going on the tattoos, the sleeve, he looks fit. He's into biohacks and all that. Was that the right way to say that biohack? Yeah. Hacking. He works out and he takes care of himself. There you go. So there's a couple of things checked off right there, like working out, keeping yourself up a certain level of discipline, the reading. So You've gotten yourself into that world. And then you mentioned something about like promoting or where do you kind of do now? Like, what's your whole deal with the book world now? You just wrote a book, and we'll talk about that in a second. But marketing, is that more what it is?
Nick Hutchison04:43 - 06:29
Yeah, so I took that internship. I got into the world of personal development books. I graduated. I took a full-time job with that company. And I was able to read and apply books to my sales role and go from intern to director of sales in a very short period of time. And I knew I didn't want to work for somebody else for my whole life though, so I started building BookThinker as my company on the side. I kind of had my nine to five, and then I had my five to nine. What happened at first was that I just started sharing the books I was reading on social media. I was connecting with like-minded people. I was reviewing books. And eventually, as the audience started to grow, authors, they started to reach out. And they'd be like, hey, Nick, I love your book reviews. You're getting a lot of attention. Can I pay you to review my book? I'm like, well, that's pretty interesting. So I would say, yes, I'd love to get paid to read. And that was the first successful form of monetization. But it didn't stop there, right? I wanted to be a business guy. I wanted this to be my full-time thing. So I'd follow up with these authors. and ask like hey let me understand your world like what else can i do to help you sell books i want to understand the pain you're experiencing i want to understand why you wrote the book does it help you sell complimentary products and services like coaching consulting speaking business whatever let me figure it out for you so i tried a lot of things that didn't work I found some things that did and kind of fast forward until today. My agency helps hundreds of authors a year, got 10 people on my team. We all love books. And so yeah, it was a slow grind for a little while figuring things out. But over the last five years or so, we built a real business and it's all about getting the right book in the right hands at the right time because books change lives. They really do.
Ken Baden06:30 - 07:24
You were talking before, and they do, by the way, we were talking before this episode started to be recorded, that it was surprising to me how relatively simple it was to actually get published. You don't have to have this Stephen King level novel if you have a talent or you have a knack for it, like most of my peers. You have a niche, right? And they'll say, okay, hey, like my, you know, it's whether it's SEO or whatever, right? Like, and they'll write a how to or something like that and get published, and it'll actually do very well in that market. So I think you might be surprised. One thing, if you don't do it, it'll you won't ever get published. But can you talk about that kind of like, you know, I don't know, I would say misconception that you have to be like a Stephen King type. And the reality is, like, if you have an idea, you could actually get published. And it's not as hard as some might think.
Nick Hutchison07:24 - 09:06
Yes, I'll start by saying this. Books solve problems and they help you develop skills, right? That's why we read them or something in between, but that's really it. They solve problems and they develop skills. Why? Because they condense decades of somebody else's lived experience into days of reading. It's the greatest hack there ever was, right? I'm 29 years old, but over the last 10 years, I've read thousands of years worth of other people's best life lessons So of course it's working for me. Why wouldn't it be? So again, we think our problems are unique to us, but the fact is about a hundred billion people have lived before us. Millions of them have written books about their life experience and thousands of those books could probably help you solve the same problem that you're dealing with today or help you develop the same skill that you're looking to develop today. So books are a great life hack and that's why we need to write books. We've all lived different lives. And they all have very specific skills that we've been working on for decades. So we can condense those skills into a number of pages, 100 pages, 200, 300 pages. And that will be a value to somebody that's one or two steps behind where you are today. Everybody's made progress by the time they're in their late 20s, 30s, 40s. and you just document it and you hand it to somebody who's a few years behind you, and it will be of value to them. That's why I think everybody should write a book. And also, in the process of writing, you're forced to observe your own behavior, look at your own story, analyze things, consolidate, rework it, simplify, and teach it to other people. So that entire process is valuable by itself too.
Ken Baden09:07 - 09:17
You know, I love that everybody should write a book. So if you're listening to this and you've ever thought about that, he just, and maybe you can elaborate on putting somebody on game one, like what the steps are to make that happen.
Nick Hutchison09:19 - 11:13
Yeah, absolutely. So I think step one is, well, it depends. There's really three different ways that you can go about putting out a book. There's being traditionally published. So you sell the rights to your book to a publishing house. They take care of editing, design, and distribution. And you maybe get paid up front. Sometimes you don't. There's hybrid publishing, which is, they're going to help you write the book, and they're going to share in the marketing, but you still own your IP, so you make more per book. And then there's self-publishing, where you go at it by yourself, you figure it out, you upload it to Amazon, you are responsible for selling it. So I think anybody's capable of self-publishing. There's no friction there. Amazon has a platform called KDP, Kindle Direct Publishing. You can get a book uploaded to Amazon tomorrow if you read it today. And then Amazon does print on demand fulfillment. So if you upload it in Boston, but somebody in California buys it, they'll print it at an Amazon warehouse in California, and it'll be at that person's doorstep the next day, right? There are so many different ways to make it happen. But if you want to do traditional publishing like you're talking about, yeah, you want to write the framework for the book. You want to write a couple of sample chapters. To get it in front of the biggest companies, then you hire an agent. So an agent represents your book, kind of like they could represent you as an athlete or something like that. And they'll go to the big publishing houses and they will pitch your book. If you want to work with a smaller publishing house, you can be your own agent. Write a few chapters, write an outline, a book proposal, maybe even finish the book, and then get it in front of these people. Make a sales presentation, pitch your book. They'll pick it up, they'll improve it, and they'll distribute it for you. So yeah, it's not that hard. People definitely overcomplicate it, but everybody's got something of value to say. And if you can get it in front of the right person who believes in your message, you can get the book out there too.
Ken Baden11:14 - 12:40
Man, I'm actually, and we were just talking about this, but I'm in a few different, if you've listened to this show, you already know that, right? We've had a couple of different, you know, the Elliott group, the Apex members, we've had a few different members of a few different masterminds come on this show. And, you know, I'm involved with a few of those, but most of them have written a book. And I was kind of like the last of the Mohicans there where I just hadn't done it yet. And that's like my next on my list. But now it's abundantly obvious that like, It's not as hard as you as I'm probably making it out to be right now. I have a different see I'm conflicted because to your point, there's the how-to method and I do have a wealth of knowledge, but I also have this past that I always inevitably like I don't want to say I force it but I feel compelled to explain it because I've gotten in the habit of doing that. originally in fear of judgment, right? Like if they find out this, then they're going to know and they're going to see because you see me and I'm at the cuff links and everything else. You may think, okay, well, but anybody that knows me and everybody that's listening to this show knows, you know, six years ago, this guy was completely down and out. You know, I'm a felon, everything else, which is why, you know, I feel like That's one story and then like you know the learned experience probably possibly is another there's the life story and then there's like hey okay here's my business. expertise or sales expertise or whatever right so.
Nick Hutchison12:42 - 12:44
Well, the good thing is you can write as many books as you want.
Ken Baden12:44 - 13:09
Yeah, there you go, man. You don't have to stop at one. You can easily just do a couple of books. There you go. Speaking of that, you brought up a couple of really cool points. And first and foremost, by the way, don't get it twisted. My man here is a is a door to door, former door to door demon. Would you like to elaborate on that so you can just, you know, make sure that these guys know you've earned your stripes? You know what I mean? You've been out there in the elements, knocking doors,
getting doors slammed in your face. What were you selling?
Nick Hutchison13:10 - 14:59
Yeah, when I was in college, I ran my own house painting business for two summers. So it was part of a larger program that would take care of workers' comp, accounting, some back-end stuff. They would get you trained and certified. But you were responsible for everything. You'd have to go knock doors, generate your own estimates, go back, provide those estimates, close your own business. I had to hire all my friends to paint houses. organize the job sites and everything. So it was a lot. Let me cough real quick. And I definitely missed the fact that I would have to do my own door-to-door selling when I first signed up for this thing. Because I was shy, a little bit insecure, not very confident in my ability to sell or communicate. And once I got approved for this company, I started to show up to sales trainings at college and I was awful. In fact, we learned a script. And the first time I ever went out knocking doors, my sales mentors with me, and I remember I had this whole script memorized. Knock on the first door, this woman answers. She definitely needed her house painted. But all I said was, hey, would you like an estimate? And she was like, who are you and an estimate for what? And I was like, oh, I forgot. Well, my name is Nick. I'm running a house painting business to help pay for college and you need some work. And she just slammed the door on my face. And I was like, this is going to be tough. But listen, I knocked on thousands and thousands of doors over two summers, driving back every weekend from college, and I made it happen. I made a lot of money for a college student, and I figured out how to sell. I realized that rejection is just part of the process, and every no gets closer to a yes, and it's a numbers game. I became desensitized, I think, to the anxiety and the fear, and I really started to thrive and enjoy it.
Ken Baden15:01 - 15:10
Would you say that that experience, I mean, I can't see how there wasn't a positive, but that set you up for future success in your endeavors now?
Nick Hutchison15:11 - 15:31
Yes. I even make reference to it in my book Rise of the Reader because I think my door-to-door sales stripes or earn your stripes or whatever, yeah, it's the toughest thing you could possibly do. And when you get really good at it, you can apply that sales skill set to anything else and you'll be a winner on any team. I really believe that.
Ken Baden15:31 - 15:47
I couldn't agree more. My wife's an attorney and she says, hey, everybody should have the experience of but being a service-based industry. But if you're going into sales, I think everybody should have the experience of either door-to-door or phones. Either of those are pretty equally brutal, but there's something about door-to-door, man.
Nick Hutchison15:47 - 15:49
I did phones later too. Yeah.
Ken Baden15:49 - 16:24
Did you really? So you're the real deal, brother. A, you're just a glutton for punishment. You just love rejection. And B, I did the same. Way less phones, but I did it enough to realize people are way more brazen and nasty on the phone. Because there's no consequences, dude. They're not face-to-face. They're just like, go have yourself, you know what I mean? I'm like, all right, well, quick. We'll just try another one. Smile and dial. But you brought up your book. I have a very cool question for you. But tell us about what your book's about, first of all.
Nick Hutchison16:25 - 16:36
Listen, as I built my community, I mean, right now we do a million impressions a month on Instagram. We interview all of the business celebrities that we were talking about offline before. So there's a lot of in-depth attention.
Ken Baden16:36 - 16:48
Promozees, the Grant Cardones, this gentleman's, where's the YouTube channel that they can watch, or excuse me, because you have your own podcast. Is there a channel they can see this on or the podcast they can watch this on?
Nick Hutchison16:49 - 18:13
Yeah, BookThinkers on YouTube or just BookThinkers, Life Changing Books is the actual name of the podcast. And yeah, all those guys have been on. And so listen, as we built this community, people reached out with the same questions over and over and over again. Like, how do I choose the right book? How do I take good notes? How do I implement what I'm reading? And so Listen, I'd answer everybody. I'd send a voice note, jump on a quick Zoom call, type something out, but I knew I was underserving everybody. So I decided to write a book on the subject. I wish somebody else had written it, then I could just refer people to the book. I'm not a great writer, but I decided to sit down and figure it out. So I started by observing my own behavior. What the heck does Nick Hutchison do to implement books? And then I documented it, and I built frameworks, and I made roadmaps that people could follow. And so everything that I know about effectively reading, retaining, and implementing information is inside of this book, Rise of the Reader. And it will help you get more from the other books you're reading. If you choose not to read it after hearing that, I'm telling you, there's an opportunity cost to continuing your process today without reading my process because I've read and implemented over 500 of these books. I've created my dream life and I've made it available for everybody. So that's the purpose of this book. Get more from the other books that you're reading.
Ken Baden18:16 - 19:37
That's the tying knot of this, like the theme here with, you know, what we talk about here on the kitchen table, which is business, uh, personal, professional, uh, development. And I mean, any book that's going to help you. Increase what you then get from the current book, because that's like a prerequisite to any of the things that we do. I've got a morning routine. I've got an evening routine and all of it is. wrapped around reading and I talk about a few books and that's what I want to ask you is being in your position and having written a book that is specifically about getting the most out of, I would imagine most of them are going to be personal and professional development books, self-help books, things like that. right? It was the homosies, which is all of the stuff that we all read, right? And I don't think I've, I haven't read a fiction book since I was in like, I don't know, maybe goosebumps days, dude. But everything I read now is going to be personal, professional development. And I think everything that everyone reads currently that's listening to this show probably in the same page, page. So that being said, what would be your top three or five, if you have to use five, but your top five books on personal and professional development from a gentleman that has written a book on getting the most out of them. Let's hear it. Are you ready for it or you got them all?
Nick Hutchison19:37 - 19:40
Oh, yeah. No, of course. Listen, I'm ready to go.
Ken Baden19:40 - 19:46
I can name a hundred books, but I'm sure you could, but I'm curious to see what your top five are and if there are any of them I haven't read.
Nick Hutchison19:47 - 21:17
Yeah, well, you mentioned one of my favorites already, which is $100M Offers by Alex Hormozy. And maybe his newer book, $100M Leads, will be up there once I'm done with it as well. But listen to this. For anybody that's not choosing to read today, check out the following example. Last year, I decided to read $100M Offers. I went into the book with the intention of doubling, tripling my average deal size. I said, I want to create a better offer and I want to build it up and make it so that People would feel dumb saying no. I'm going through the book and I'm going through the exercises and I find something. I go, I think this is a new service. It's actually about 10 times bigger than my average deal size was a year and a half ago. So I implement it. I start selling it. It sells like wildfire. I added an additional six figures of revenue in my small business within three months. of reading and implementing $100 million offers. And Alex uses my testimonial in his presentations today, because it's serious. That's what the book did for me. So $100 million offers by Alex Hormozy. Everybody that's listening today, grab a copy of the book, do the exercises, get the physical paper book, do the exercises that he recommends, and money just It comes out of nowhere. I'm telling you, it really does. Alex knows his stuff. So I'll pause there, because I know you're reading the book right now, too. Any additional thoughts on that?
Ken Baden21:17 - 21:40
Yeah, one would be that I have cheated a little bit on doing the exercises. So I was like, well, I've got to go back and do some, you know what I mean? I've been on a few planes while reading it. And I might have done, but there's definitely a few where I was like, I'm just going to keep moving forward. So when you said that, I was like, damn. back and do some of those exercises. I think I've done a few, but I definitely have skipped a couple.
Nick Hutchison21:40 - 21:51
It's so good. Go back and do those. I'll mention a couple more. A book that's almost changed everything in my life too is The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss.
Ken Baden21:51 - 21:53
I haven't read that yet. I'm so glad you said that.
Nick Hutchison21:54 - 23:02
And that's, yeah, it's, it's a little outdated, but think about first principles when you read it, because the book's over 10 years old now. So there's some resources and stuff in it that aren't super relevant today, but first principles, thinking back to the basics, Tim teaches you to analyze your workload. What is high leverage? What is low leverage? What's really important? What's actually generating results? And what's not so important? And automate, eliminate, delegate all of the low impact stuff, the stuff that's neutral or drains your energy, the stuff that doesn't actually create any value, all the busy work, delegate it. And he teaches you how to delegate in the most efficient way humanly possible inside of that book. So here I am today, with a full workload, but everything in my calendar is high leverage. It's stuff that I enjoy doing. And that's a beautiful place to be. Like life doesn't have to be showing up and doing work that you hate. So Tim teaches you how to design a life and design a business and build a business where you only do what you really enjoy and you outsource the rest. So that's been a really important book for me.
Ken Baden23:02 - 23:08
I'm looking forward to reading that because there's another one on time. What is it, Buy Back Your Time? I haven't read that one either, but my- That's a good one too.
Nick Hutchison23:08 - 23:09
You read that? Yeah.
Ken Baden23:09 - 23:25
I assumed you did. You probably read all of the best ones, but I'd like, that's another one I'd like to read because I would imagine most of us, especially with, are you familiar with EOS? I mean, there's traction and rocket fuel in all those books. Yeah, I read two. I would imagine you're familiar.
Nick Hutchison23:26 - 23:31
Yeah, I've read Traction by Gino a couple of times and I'm familiar with EOS.
Ken Baden23:31 - 24:39
So I'm the quintessential visionary in that, you know what I mean? I need that integrator to come in and compartmentalize a lot of that. And I, the time and, you know, where are my chinks in my armor? And so those are the books that I'm really like trying to like, okay, the delegating and how to effectively delegate and found myself. I was even talking to my executive assistant today. I said, look, here are the four to five areas I need to be focused on. every single day and actually, not Ed Milette, but his right hand. God, dude. Andy? Andy? No. Priscilla? Yes, Andy Priscilla. I thought you were going to say Elliot. Yes, Priscilla. Priscilla talks about, I think he has his power five or something like that. He looks at every night. That's worked for me because I find that, There's really only four or five main areas that I should be focused on every single day. You know what I mean? And that's it. Everything else, I've told her today. So if there's anything else that's on our to-do list that's not involved in any of these areas, it needs to be delegated, right? It's busy work or it's stuff that's not going to be a great use of my time.
Nick Hutchison24:40 - 25:09
Yeah, you and your EA should read The 4-Hour Workweek. And then Buy Back Your Time is more recent, maybe more relevant, maybe a better priority for you to read. I mean, there are frameworks in that book for when you should delegate. For instance, if something can be delegated for less than 25% of your hourly rate, it literally costs your business money not to delegate it. So there's like all sorts of cool frameworks. That's in Buy Back Your Time. Yeah, that's in Buy Back Your Time.
Ken Baden25:10 - 25:19
I think I need to read that first. So look, that's awesome, man. I mean, what do you think about some of the classics, Think and Grow Rich? You read that probably once or twice.
Nick Hutchison25:19 - 25:36
Yeah. I mean, Napoleon Hill has one of my favorite quotes of all time. He says, action is the real measure of intelligence. And that's my whole brand, man. It's action. It's like, if you choose to read these books and not take action, then you're underserving yourself. So action is where it's at. Think and Grow Rich is a great book.
Ken Baden25:37 - 26:38
Yeah. Yeah. None of these books are going to do you a whole lot of good if you don't take any actionable steps thereafter, right? Same with, uh, so many, I could actually go back and forth and nerd out on all this with you because most of the books I've read have led to the podcast I listened to have led to and so on and so forth. I mean, my, uh, Ryan Stuman is a, is a coach of mine has written the G code and example. And, you know, he's a big, like, dude, you need to write a book and contribute and readers are leaders and You know, he's the one who put me under Homo's $100 million offer and. Uh. There's just so much available out there. For me, what I find is there's so much, every time somebody, in fact, I wrote both of those down that I haven't read yet. I'm like, oh, I gotta read that. And what I really find is like, I've got so many freaking books I have to read that I can't read at the same time, because what I'll end up doing is jumping into this one and then jumping into that one. That's why I haven't completed a hundred million dollar offers yet, because I jumped into, oh, I got this new book. I'm gonna check that. I'll come back to this. Anything for a guy like me, anything to help me on that?
Nick Hutchison26:38 - 28:29
Yeah, for sure. For sure. So number one, I love asking this question. This isn't relevant to you, but then we'll get to your point in a second. So if anybody in the audience today still isn't convinced to read a book or they say, I can't read, I don't have time to read. I love to say this. If I paid you $10,000 to read a book by the end of the month, do you think you could do it?" And that same person's like, well, I could read five. And so, they've fallen into my trap. It's not a question of whether or not you can read, it's a question of whether or not you value the reading enough to prioritize it. Maybe you have, like you do, kind of like a scheduling issue where you're balancing too many things at once. So here's kind of the solution from my perspective. Instead of trying to find time to read, just replace a low impact activity, like 15 minutes of social media in the morning with reading a good book, or 15 minutes of Netflix in the evening with a good book. Not the whole activity, I'm not a robot, but like a little bit of Netflix Just switch that for a good book. 15 minutes in the morning and 15 minutes in the evening. It's 30 minutes a day. It's not going to kill anybody. And even if you're just starting out, 30 minutes of reading a day is about 20 pages. So 20 pages, five days a week, that's 100 pages a week. Most of these books, they're about 200 pages on average now. So that's a book every two weeks. It's 26 books a year by replacing a little bit of social media in the morning and a little bit of Netflix in the evening with reading a good book. Put it in your calendar. Like Ed Milet says, bookend your day with reading books. 15 minutes, 15 minutes, 26 books a year. That's the math. And it's foolproof. All you have to do is be a little disciplined, a little less social media, a little less Netflix. That's how it happens.
Ken Baden28:29 - 30:31
benefits managers, I mean, I can't say enough about them. I mean, that's really your starting point if you want to kind of like jumpstart to success. I mean, if you're not a reader or an avid reader, you haven't read any of these books, I don't know. I don't know. I don't really know what to tell you other than you should strongly consider doing so because Most of these books are the reason what like sort of propelled me into, oh, I really want to do this. Or maybe I can do this. Think and Grow Rich was a big one for me. And I'm sure it was a big one for a lot of people, but. For me, it was more so the nerding out on the science behind like the power of manifestation. I also read the power of positive thinking by Norma Vincent Peale. And like, I really started getting like, man, there's a lot to the, you know, the subconscious or the unconscious so much so that I just went and recently paid to be NLP certified in timeline therapy, NLP practitioner and NLP coach, right? And Ed talks about it, man, and anchors and all that other stuff. But like, it's just the science behind that, that I'm actually reading a book, see. I have to admit, I'm listening to a book, because I have different ones, right? Like, that's how I trick myself, because I'll be like, well, I'm going to get this one on Audible, and I'm going to get this one in paperback, and then I can listen to one on the way in, and I can read one on the way in when I'm home, and I'm not bouncing back and forth. But I don't know what your thoughts are on that, but like, that's how I've kind of tried to keep from jumping back and forth into different books. The one I'm listening to currently is Breaking the Habit of Being Yourself. That is a hard listen to digest and then apply. That's my only downside to the audible. I guess the self-help books are, for me, difficult to do. Hormozy also talks about listening and also reading at the same time, and digesting is significantly faster. But just listening for me on these self-help books, man, It's been difficult to say the least, but I would... Yeah, well, here's why.
Nick Hutchison30:31 - 31:47
80% of the inputs to our brain are visual, 80%. So by default, the other senses only make up, including auditory, only make up the remaining 20. So if you're listening, you're already at a disadvantage if you're only listening. And all of a sudden, you're not monotasking in a book like you would be when you're reading a physical book, right? You're not focused on one activity, you're driving. and you're listening. So it's like your visual is being taken up by the road. That's most of the processing power. And then your other senses are barely even hanging on. So yeah, you're multitasking when you're listening in the car. And listen, I listen to 25 books a year. So I think it's better than music. I think podcasting is better than music. People are probably listening today in the car doing chores or whatever. That's OK. Keep doing that. It's better than music. It will get you closer to where you want to be, but reading a physical paper book is absolutely the best situation. I mean, maybe you could say listening and reading at the same time, multi-sensory, a little bit better. Not much better, but a little bit better. I like that Hormozy suggests that too. I mean, I even suggested in my book, Rise of the Reader, I even say to do that right in the beginning.
Ken Baden31:48 - 31:57
I mean, what is it just processes? I mean, I can't remember why, but I thought it was something to do with like processing faster or your brain processing. There's some science behind it. You would probably know.
Nick Hutchison31:59 - 32:58
Yeah, there is. I mean, it's multi-sensory. So, you're getting the best of both worlds. I'll read something quickly from my book. Actually, I don't have the right copy of it in front of me. Here, actually, let's see. I bet I do. So, right in the beginning, I talk about the benefits of doing this. So, check this out. This dynamic approach to reading can significantly enhance your comprehension and engagement with the material. By pairing the written text with the spoken words, you create a multi-sensory experience that taps into both visual and auditory processing. This can be particularly beneficial for complex or dense content, as the audiobook can help clarify challenging passages or unfamiliar terms, while the act of reading keeps your focus sharp. So when you do the combination, you're reading faster, you're staying on track, because you're going past the complicated words. It definitely helps you out.
Ken Baden32:58 - 33:23
Put that in layman's terms for you blue-collar folks out there. It helps you process things better, especially even if it's a read that's a little bit, you know what I mean? You ever have a tough read, you know what I mean? You're reading something and you're like, man, this is just, I don't know. I mean, frankly, thinking Grow Rich is kind of one of those, because it's written in, what, the 30s? So you're like, man, what is this guy talking about? The audio book on top of can help you process it a little bit better because you're engaging both senses.
Nick Hutchison33:24 - 33:36
Yes. I've had to listen to all of Jordan Peterson's books because I just can't read them. The language is too complex for me and I'm not smart enough, so I have to listen to it.
Ken Baden33:36 - 34:02
That's actually a really good idea. Maybe it was ego, I don't know. But you know what? Now that you say that, I'm like, dude, that's a good idea because you're absolutely right. I don't know what the hell he's talking about, dude. That guy is a freak. I love Jordan Peterson, but man, I'm like, what did he just say? I got to make my bed out of that. I figured that part out. I've got that firmly entrenched in my brain.
Nick Hutchison34:02 - 34:23
I'll tell you a funny story. I was very close to interviewing Jordan for this recent release, Beyond Order, but I was also genuinely scared because I was like, I don't know if I can hold a conversation with him. that sounds intellectual for an hour? Like that's a tough task.
Ken Baden34:23 - 34:45
Yeah, I don't think I could, but I would, my thing would be, I just wouldn't even try, man. I would just be like, you know what I mean? I'd be the color commentary to his brains. I'd have to be. I'm sure as hell not gonna keep up, you know what I mean? I don't have, my vocabulary is not extensive enough. I don't have, the reserves just aren't there, you know? I'd have to have Webster's right here, just like on Google, you know what I mean?
Nick Hutchison34:45 - 34:46
I ran into him once.
Ken Baden34:47 - 36:37
At a hotel recently, I was in Utah for a, what was it? The Muscle, they were all there, Bradley, all the big, Ed, I met Ed that weekend. Some conference, some, it was the Limitless Mastermind. And I had flown there with Ryan Steumann, my coach, and some other folks. And we were staying at this really nice hotel, one of the nicest hotels in Utah. And it was old as hell. And it looked it, but it was beautiful, right? It was very luxurious. We go to leave and who's standing in the lobby with his wife and just sitting there like a normal bro. You know what I mean? Just a Chad, just sitting there looking cool as hell tall, like a lot taller than I thought it was him, dude. And I'm on the phone with my wife and I hang up. And I'm just staring at the guy like a weirdo because I'm like, is this Jordan Peterson, dude? You know what I mean? And I'm just like, didn't realize how long I had been locked on staring at this guy. And finally he just like stares back at me and starts like smiling at me like, Hey, what's up, dude? Like you got a problem, bro? You know what I mean? It wasn't, you know, it was a friendly like, yeah, can I help you? And I'm like, oh, Dr. Peterson. Sorry. You know what I mean? Totally. Total, total embarrassing. Like, oh, I'm such a big fan, sir. You know, I was really embarrassing, but his wife was super nice. She thought, I think she thought it was like, sweet or cute, but he was cool as hell, man. He didn't, he's always, I'm like, so sorry for bothering you. You know what I mean? It was just a total fan moment, dude. I was so embarrassed. Yeah, yeah. He's amazing. He was a super cool guy. And you know what? He was speaking at a solar con or something. It was going on the same weekend. So, but Nick, where can we find you? Where can we get all of your stuff? Where can we buy the book? Tell us all about all things, Nick, Facebook, social, Insta, and where can we buy this book of yours?
Nick Hutchison36:38 - 37:17
Yeah, if anybody wants a custom book recommendation from me, it's one of my favorite things to do. So on Instagram, because that's my platform, I don't really use Facebook much, but on Instagram, at BookThinkers. I mean, we're also on Facebook at BookThinkers, but I don't think I'll get your DM. So DM me at BookThinkers on Instagram. Tell me about a problem you have. Tell me about a skill that you want to develop. or something in between, and I'll make a custom book recommendation. I'll probably ask some follow-up questions and stuff, but it's one of my favorite things to do. Because again, I believe the right book at the right time can change your life. And from there, there are links in the bio to my book, Rise of the Reader, our website, and a whole bunch of other good stuff.
Ken Baden37:19 - 38:09
We will also try and put those in the notes as well on the episode. But if not, you're listening to this, make sure that you do go check that out. Because honestly, man, I think that's such a cool concept. All the books that I read that is the exact reason if you're if look, if you're listening to this podcast, chances are you read the exact same books for the exact same reasons. Now we have a book that's able to help us. I mean, I know I'm going to get it and check it out. And I'd love to follow up with you having, you know, post reading it. But yeah, man, I mean, how cool is that to get more out of what you're digesting? I mean, honestly, you've already kind of given me one very brain dead tidbit, but like, Hey, by the way, dude, you're reading her Moses book, and it has these, uh, these things that you're supposed, these exercises you're supposed to be doing, you should probably do those. You know what I mean?
Nick Hutchison38:09 - 38:18
Hey, sometimes you just need somebody to remind you. Yeah. Well, they are optional, but, but, uh, you should do them anyway.
Ken Baden38:18 - 38:28
So what's up, man? What's next for you? You got another book on the horizon, travel, working out. What's what's, what's the next thing you've got going on? The next big thing. You don't strike me as a guy that stays content or complacent for very long.
Nick Hutchison38:29 - 38:58
Yeah, you know what? I'll say two things on that quickly. One is that I do optimize for enjoying the passage of time. Like that's my purpose. Like I'm in the present moment, but that does not mean complacent because part of joy for me is making progress. So yeah, I can be healthier. I definitely can be wealthier. I don't know if I could be happier, man. I'm a happy guy. I've got a great relationship. I got married to my wife earlier this year. We continue to travel.
Ken Baden38:58 - 39:03
And we shared the same marriage year anyhow. I got married in August. Congratulations.
Nick Hutchison39:03 - 39:25
Oh, well, yeah. Congratulations to you as well. And so who knows, man, kids, like bigger business, you know, all those things are on the horizon for the next couple of years. But the future doesn't look super different than it does today. It's just more of the same. I really have found a way to enjoy my life. And life doesn't have to be so hard if you just read and implement and read and implement and read and implement.
Ken Baden39:27 - 40:38
Well, I'm going to take some of this advice because I tend to overcomplicate brushing my teeth. But, uh, just, yeah, you know what I mean? I think a lot of us are like that, but you seem to be the anomaly. You know, who strikes me as that too, is like Hermosi. You know, he always, that dude's on his game, man. And, you know, I like, he's like, did I, You know, these guys with these, with these, I don't want to go on a tangent, but he talks about like the whole morning routine of which I have one right now. I read this many pages and do all these things like, yeah, that's cool, man, but you can become a millionaire without like a. you know, 20 page morning routine. And did you, did you get that routine post success? Or did you have that then get the success? I don't know, dude, he's always kind of like, busting out some of these, like, I'm like, I do, I don't know, maybe I did get that after I was already was like, the real answer is just do what it takes to make things happen, then, you know, you don't necessarily need all of the frills and you know, the 20 page or 20 line item morning routines. But Hermosi's brutal with that, man. But I love it. And he just came and gave away the whole game for free. I'm sure you saw that on a live stream, what, a couple months ago.
Nick Hutchison40:39 - 41:03
Yeah, I, you know what, I love him. Like I mentioned, we just had him on our podcast. There are some things that I don't agree with him on and I wish, I wish the conversation that I had with him, we butt heads a little bit more. You know, when you have somebody like that on your show, it's a big moment, right? So I, I didn't want to mess around with him too much. I think next time I'll, I'll We'll go at it. Okay, here are a couple things.
Ken Baden41:03 - 41:07
I was gonna say, hey, look, man, we don't have to jump just yet.
Nick Hutchison41:07 - 42:19
You can tag him in some of these. So one thing that he said, he's sort of a nihilist. He doesn't believe that you can be happy or that you should optimize for joy and happiness. Like he thinks that in a way, life is suffering and you should just embrace the suck and that's all there is, and it's not going to matter in the end anyway. Now, I tend to be more religious and spiritual, and so I think there is a purpose. I am happy. I think although I'm not as rich as he is, I enjoy my life more than he does. I really do believe that because I've optimized for happiness and positive mental health and positive affirmations. All of these things that we're talking about in the morning routines, they make me feel really good. And this whole idea of also you have to eat dessert every single night, there's no scientific explanation for why sugar is ever going to increase your energy. long-term or make you feel good or healthy. Yeah, I don't want to do that. I feel amazing every single day. I have amazing energy and it's because I don't do the same things that he's advocating for. Yeah, maybe he's the anomaly because he can eat dessert every night and not optimize for happiness and still function, but I don't want to do that.
Ken Baden42:19 - 43:22
It's so funny you pick that one because I have hung on to that one and justified to myself. Well, look, dude, Hermosi said, he eats dessert every night, but he also, to be fair, now, I don't remember specifically, and I know that you've probably read way more and hey, whatever, but I do remember him, trust me, I latched onto that with everything I had because I'm like, oh, dude, well, I'm good. I can eat dessert every night and I'm good. But the reality was, he was like, look, I count, I weigh everything out, I count everything, and i have this deficit and so therefore at night i can fill it with what the hell i want and for me it's dessert but to your point i struggle with overdoing it on the sugar. I sure as hell do not like weigh it out. And then like I do feel like dog shit the next day because I ate a bunch of sugar and then tried to go to sleep. So maybe for me, the answer is a little bit more in the middle there, like, hey, you know, some some moderation. Not so good at that myself, but I'm going to have you look you look fit and healthy anyway.
Nick Hutchison43:22 - 44:00
I mean, I think that message is it's not damaging you. It's not damaging me, but it's damaging some people who you know, can't control their weight and they're not. Hormoses in the gym. Well, now I guess he says he's in the gym a little bit less, but for 20 straight years of his life, he was in the gym every day for three hours a day. Like he has enough muscle to burn the rest in calories and being a deficit that like 99% of his followers don't have. By the way, again, I will reinforce he's made me so much money and I love 98% of what he puts out there, but I don't agree with all of it. Like you can be happy and you shouldn't eat dessert every night.
Ken Baden44:01 - 44:25
I respect that immensely and it makes for a good conversation, man. And he is intelligent enough. I would, you know what I mean? That I'm sure he would appreciate the banter and the back and forth. Maybe we guys will get the opportunity. I have to put this up. We'll tag him and see if we can't start a little social beef here, man. Get you guys going. Two powerful brains going back and forth and I'll just be sitting back eating my dessert, hoping the dessert guy wins.
Nick Hutchison44:26 - 44:32
Yeah, my whole team at BookThinkers will probably back them up, so it'll be a one verse many fight.
Ken Baden44:32 - 45:04
Well, I love it, brother. I loved it. This was great, man. I'm really happy that you came on. I'm really happy that we got linked up. I can't wait to go and bring you my book as soon as I actually get going on it. Yeah, man. I can't wait to talk in the future. Readers, check this guy out. Buy his product. I mean, this is an excellent tool to then help you get the most out of these tools that you're already freaking investing in, which are books, self-help books. So check it out. Nick, thank you so much, brother. And we'll talk again soon.
Nick Hutchison45:04 - 45:05
Yeah, man. I appreciate the opportunity.
Intro/Outro45:08 - 45:28
Thanks so much for tuning into this episode. We sure do appreciate it. If you haven't done so already, make sure you're subscribed to the show, wherever you consume podcasts. This way you'll get updates as new episodes become available. And if you feel so inclined, please leave us a review. It is how new people find the show until next time. Remember there's always a seat at the table for business.