In episode 85 of The Kitchen Table, Ken Baden interviews Scott Hogle, President of iHeartMedia Honolulu, as he shares his journey from door-to-door sales to becoming a leader in the radio industry, emphasizing the importance of mentorship, faith, and personal development.
Tune in for a conversation filled with valuable perspectives on business, family, and the evolving landscape of leadership.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:02:13] Leadership and encouragement principles.
[00:05:43] Overcoming addiction through faith.
[00:10:03] Faith and mentorship in success.
[00:12:28] The art of mentorship.
[00:15:36] Writing a book inspiration.
[00:19:17] Power of manifestation.
[00:24:39] Heartbreak in leadership development.
[00:27:36] Evaluating job opportunities wisely.
[00:30:33] Purpose over paycheck.
[00:32:50] Character vs. Sales Skills.
[00:37:35] Continuous personal development journey.
[00:39:40] Sales as persuasion in business.
[00:44:03] God's wisdom for success.
[00:48:03] Purpose-driven life choices.
[00:50:20] Creating online content.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Ken Baden
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialkenbaden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/officialkenbaden
Scott Hogle
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/scott.hogle/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/persuadebook/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-hogle/
WEBSITES:
The Kitchen Table Podcast: https://thekitchentablepodcast.net/
Blue Collar Ballers Union: https://bluecollarballersunion.com/
Scott Hogle: https://www.scotthogle.com/
___________________________________________________________________
BOOKS ARE AVAILABLE ON AMAZON!
Divine Intelligence: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1641467428
Persuade: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1613397712
Welcome to The Kitchen Table, a podcast about where business is done. So pull up a chair and join your host, Ken Baden.
All right, guys, welcome back to another episode of The Kitchen Table. I'm your host, Ken Baden. And today we've got a very special guest all the way from Hawaii, right?
Ken Baden
Honolulu, Hawaii, live.
Scott Hogle
Honolulu, Hawaii, live. Way better than Annapolis, Maryland, at least this time of year. But we've got Mr. Scott Hogle, iHeartRadio president, author, bestselling author, and absolute superstar. Thank you so much for gracing us with your presence today, live from Hawaii. How are you, sir?
Ken Baden
Doing fantastic. It's such an honor to be with you today, Ken. Thank you for having me on.
Scott Hogle
Well, thank you for taking the time. What time is it?
I mean, what time is it actually in Honolulu right now? It's 1138.
I don't even, that's it's what is it? 5 30 PM here.
That's why we're five hours behind central time and six behind East coast time.
So in prep for the show, and I know you know, your son Bailey couldn't make it, but I just doing a little bit of research. And I think, so he went to, I guess, Hawaii. Was he able to go to Hawaii? Like the actual school, Hawaii, like the football team.
Bailey went to university of Hawaii and graduated from the Schindler's school of business was actually at the time when he entered was like 19th ranked business school. And, um, The interesting thing about working with my son now, so Bailey's 25, and I've become his client. There's a lot of business processes that have to happen when you have books and authors. Bailey is actually the social media guru in that. It's interesting having this new experience with my son, watching him operate. Also, it's teaching me as a father, we're not to step. Because younger leaders today, we want to help them gain their influence. I work with a lot of younger leaders here, people in their 20s and their 30s. I see it as one of my roles to help develop them. Part of that is giving them confidence, giving them permission to fail, giving them a safe place to grow and experiment. I know we're talking about leadership a little bit. I think the art of encouragement is very important because You know, in fact, one of my mentors, Maxwell, once said, how can you tell if somebody needs encouragement? And the answer is if they're breathing.
What he just said, by the way, one of his mentors, he very calmly and undersold one of his leaders, Maxwell, John C. Maxwell, the John C. Maxwell. So, you know, Mr. Hogle is very well learned. Or is it learned, learned? I don't know. Pardon my vernacular, but at any rate, you have graduated from the serious school of business and leadership. And I say literally, and, you know, having worked with Mr. Maxwell is just, I mean, he's got what, 15 different books, probably more on leadership. And then of course you're a bestselling author.
Yeah, I think John is, I'm going to guess he's probably at like 90 books at this point. He's, yeah, no, a best-selling author many times over, right? So, but yeah, no, I've been, I like to refer to myself, Ken, as a student, and I believe the secret to mastery is to become student-minded and then remain a student. But I also believe this, I believe it's not just important what you learn but who you learn from. So for example, if you were to say, Scott, what are you a student of? There's four areas that I consider myself a student of, and I've been studying these since my 20s. And it's the word SALT, S-A-L-T, sales, attitude, leadership, and theology. Those are my passions. And John obviously fills the bill more than most in the area of leadership. So yeah, no, I've studied John, and I refer to myself as a Maxwellian, because I think he's as good as it comes in that lane.
I think that's so cool. And I I don't, I haven't missed the connection there with theology. And I'll get to that in a second, because I do believe that you are a pastor yourself. Is that? Yeah.
So I'm a part-time teaching pastor. I make my living. I've been in broadcast for 30 years, but I'm on the rotating teaching team at New Hope Oahu here in Honolulu. So, but it's iHeart. That's my vocation.
Well, I mean, you know, president iHeart Radio, that's true. pretty, pretty, you've done a pretty good job up the corporate ladder. So I mean, that's amazing. Uh, and as, as the bestselling author, uh, but just everything. So take me, take us, if you will. One way I like to start is just kind of like, you know, your, your story up until, but I mean, my goodness, you're, you've gone through so many things and that I read in your backstory, you know, if you had to attribute just a few of those things, I know you've done door to door. Um, you know, you started as a paper boy. Right. So like from that, if you had to pick a few of those instances, because I credit for myself and I've not accomplished yet a fraction of what you've done, but I know we've just met one another and I know you're a man of faith. And I mean, I have to be because frankly, I should have been dead seven years ago. You know, I was, I was homeless. hopelessly addicted to drugs and alcohol. And I didn't just find those things and said, you know what? I think I'm gonna go do some drugs. Like car accident, car accident led to pain pills, pain pills. And we've seen that story over and over and over. But as I've said many times before, I think it's one of the best things. I argue that it's probably the best thing that ever happened to me because it taught me a gratitude that I never had, nor never knew, a relationship with a higher power. that I believe ultimately is why I was in this situation I am. I belong to a 12-step group, and that's the crux of that group, is introducing you to a higher power, and that higher power being the thing that was really missing that we're trying to fill in. Look, subscribe to that or don't. It's worked for me. I don't care if you do or you don't, but it's worked for me. So when I see the connecting themes there where theology, leadership, it's not lost on me. For me and my route to that, was obviously a little bit different, and I can't and won't dismiss any of the trauma that you may or may not have experienced, but I do see that a lot. that connecting theme where it's like we had to go through a whole bunch of adversity, however much, however deep, however dark, to get on the other side of that. And what do you attribute in that story of your own, or at least a couple of things that were really those key factors that kind of set you up to become the man that you are today, the accomplished man, the author, all of these things? If you could pick a few, could you give us a few?
So I guess I would have to start with my journey towards a faith, honestly. So I went into outside sales, selling door-to-door when I was 20 years old, selling in the radio business. And it was B2B door-to-door. And, you know, too young, inexperienced, over my head, intimidated, insecure, as a lot of people are just starting out. You know, I always had a passion for the things of God. I never felt called into full-time vocational ministry. I always knew I was called to business, Ken. But I also pursue God in my personal life. And one of the things that I started to connect the dots in is that if you were to backtrace every success principle you believe in that's made you successful, every success principle that the people you admire, the authors that we both love and study, you can trace those success principles actually back to the scriptures. That's God who invented success. So again, you know, there's some people that come to God for relationship and for a lot of things, but the scriptures is the It's literally the Bible of success. So I don't separate those two. I bring those two together. So faith, to answer your question, faith is probably my foundation. But also, when I think about the things that have shaped me, mentorship is huge. Again, one of the major themes in the scriptures is mentorship. So there's people that have shaped my life. When you have a desire, when you want, when you're praying for something, or you're working really hard towards something, God answers prayers through people and places, and he'll send you the right people. And if you're able to identify them, and you know, like we talked about, Maxwell was one, You know, early in my sales career, this was, again, I know I only look like I'm 25, but I'm a lot older. Back in the day when Tom Hopkins was the world's number one sales trainer, I studied Tom for years, taking his material and adapting it to my business, my language, and became a student of that. He was an early mentor. John was a mentor. I've got a lot of different theological mentors, but following in somebody's footsteps, I think is key in choosing the right people to learn from. You know, there's a great Chinese proverb I've always loved, Ken, And it's this, if you want to know the way, ask somebody on the way back. So everything you want to achieve, somebody's done it before. There's a lot of people today who are travel agents. They're telling people how to become successful. The bookshelves are lined with those people. But what we really need are tour guides, people who have gone the way who can show us the way. And, you know, I know I'm giving you a long answer to your question, but I think it's faith. It's faith, knowing what and who you believe in. I think it's mentorship. And I think it's getting next to people who are like minded, who have gone where you want to go, because they can actually show you the way and help you evolve the miss and step over the pitfalls along the road. And that's where acceleration comes from, I think. Acceleration isn't just about speed, but avoiding those things that slow you down.
I couldn't agree more. In fact, I've talked about this a few times about mentorship. You know, it's one of the main things, you know, when you see, OK, well, homeless six, seven years ago to, you know, a couple of businesses and done OK. The main reason I can attribute that to your point outside of my faith is mentorship, 100%. I became obsessed with finding, to your point, the local. And I just even went to local guys here. And you would think that they may look at me as competitors, but they were absolutely gracious, eager, and still very good mentors and friends of mine today that now we can even look at possibly doing some business together. Or if nothing else, I know that they do good business. They know that I do good business. all they even ever asked from me was pay this forward. And then as I got more into it, I was able to, and was willing to pay to get in the rooms that I didn't belong in until I did. Can you speak to that? Like some folks, I got plenty of mentors that didn't cost me anything, but I also paid, you know, and you do have to be really careful there. Cause if you don't do your research, you'll end up paying for, but did you ever, I don't know, I don't need to pry, but like, you know, that's such a big thing these days. There's gurus, there's all, there's all these coaches. It's like a new wave. And we think we know that, right?
Yeah. So let me, let me answer that with an analogy. Sure. So my sons went to private school in Hawaii because the local school system here is not that great. And it's very expensive from the time they started to the time they graduated high school was 15 to 30,000 a year. It was a lot. One of my good friends was the president of that school. He's an educator. And I went to him and I asked him the question sometime. I said, is this school really that good? Is it that much better than? How would you answer that? And he said the most profound thing I've ever heard, Ken. He said, Scott, they're going to get out of it what they put into it. Sometimes we miss things because they're really simple, but you will get out of a mentor what you put into them. Let me give you an example. If you wanna become great at leadership, you could go spend $1,000 an hour for someone who's a great CEO or great mentor in leadership, or you can buy a book for 30 bucks and tear it apart, learn from it, study it, figure out how it works in your life, integrate and ask questions. I always tell people how you enter a book determines what you get out of it. So for example, Sean is a fan of my book, Persuade. He's probably read it a dozen times. If you just skim a book, you're going to get a skim result. But if you enter the book planning to with the intent from I'm going to milk everything out of this, I can possibly milk. I'm going to learn everything this guy knows. That's the art of mentorship. But you have to become a good mentee. It's not up to the mentor to teach you. It's up to you as the mentee to actually draw out the greatness from a mentor. So whether you spend $10,000 an hour or you spend $30 from a book, you and you alone are responsible for your success. It's not a mentor's job to develop you. You've got to be hungry. You've got to enter the material, enter the person with the intent to ask good questions, to learn how does this integrate with my everyday life? And I, if you've got time, I'll share a story of how I did that with some of John's stuff, but.
Oh, I would love to. In fact, you just segued right into my next question, which was persuading. I mean, you're bestselling author, you've written some of your own books and you mentioned you know, hey, there are so many books and there's so many gurus and coaches and it's just a big part of the online experience right now where everybody's a coach. Seemingly anybody that's ever rented a Ferrari or done some pushups or I don't know, but then you have guys like yourself where you can go in and you can really see the resume there. And I would love to know, and we talked a little bit about some of the books that we both read. And of course, Maxwell and the five, the five levels of leadership that we're going to read as a leadership team. But I love the way you just framed that. But take me into, if you would, please, some of the, you know, A, you mentioned a really cool story about why you wrote Persuade, and then a little bit about what we can expect to get out of Persuade from a leadership perspective. Or just tell me a little bit about that. But first, why'd you write it? I mean, you mentioned a cool story I'd love to know.
So, you know, I told you I've been a student of John's for many years. And on the couch, you see in the right behind me here, back in 2011, a guy named Mark Cole, the CEO of the John Maxwell Company, was sitting on that couch. He was in town. They were doing a seminar and we were working with them. And I was pitching Mark the idea. I said, you know, leadership is big, but there's millions of salespeople out there. Can John write a book? the 21 laws of leadership have so changed the world. Can he write one for the sales profession? I gave him some ideas and I wrote some potential sales laws down. Mark took it and gave it to John. He comes back to me the next day and he said this to me, Mark said, you know, Scott, John thinks it's a great idea, but he can't do it. He's got to stay in his lane. We think you should write it. I thought, it was almost like a seed got planted that day. And a dream was birthed. And I didn't act on it. It would take years before I would act on it. In fact, there was a life crisis that would launch that dream, if you will. But it was that moment where once you're never more than one conversation away from a breakthrough or somebody saying something that just becomes a seed and begins to grow into a dream over time. But that's how it happened. It was a simple conversation where I'm connecting with somebody that I admired. And when he spoke it, it took root.
That's awesome. That gave me a little bit of, a little bit of, I've been, I'm not even going to mention how long, but I've been, I've been talking about writing a couple of books for a while. I've got somebody sitting across from me that's seen me mention it once or twice for about a year now, but I guess putting, actually you just, you seem like a heck of an action taker. I mean, it doesn't sound like you let a whole lot of grass grow under your feet. You just had, you had, I mean, I know you've written many books before, but was that the first, was Persuade the first or was-?
Persuade was the first, and believe it or not, up until that moment where that seed was planted, I never had a desire or an aspiration to write a book. Wow. But in fact, I've got a great book, Writing Technique, I can share with you if you're interested. I'm very interested, yes. So I can't take credit for it, but I'll tell you what I did. So once I organized my table of contents and the subjects I wanted to write on about sales, I wrote the book and put together material. But my chapters were kind of thin and I needed to double them up. And I remember wrestling at one point. I thought. I don't know what else to say. So when I get stuck on something, can I just pray? And I felt like, you know, God had led me to do this Persuade Project, so I kind of went like this, you got me into this, what am I supposed to do? And I feel like the Lord gave me this idea, and here was the idea. And anyone who follows this idea, you'll be amazed at how quickly you can write a book. Scott, write down all the questions somebody would ask about the subject you're writing on, and then answer them in paragraph form. So for example, Chapter one is the law of connection. So other other words that jive with connection are like relationship, intimacy, customers. So I literally wrote 20 questions out and began about all the questions somebody might ask about how to connect with people and build relationships and partnerships. And then I answer that in paragraph format. And before you know it, it's like I've got a I've got a chapter this big and you've got to edit it. You've got to edit it down. But a question is has the ability to draw the greatness out of us. It has the ability. It's like a scoop that goes into the heart. And when we ask great questions on a sales call, when we ask great questions of ourselves, it creates that pause. I think in our hearts that gives us the ability to dig deep and unearth what's in there.
Well, I'm going to be taking that and running with that for sure. I'm, uh, I'm going to do it first of all. I'm careful with my words. That's why you keep hearing me. You know, you seem like a man that's, do you believe in like the power of manifestation? I mean, a lot of that's biblical too, like talking about praying as if it's already happened and just acting as if, or just to, you know, there's a book.
Actually it came from the Bible. So yeah, manifestation.
Right, exactly. Justin's got, I got a guy I was talking to before this. I just, I knew he would really appreciate that I was talking to you, but he's always, you know, he always is like credits the Bible first, like, ah, hold on now. And when we talk about, uh, you know, the law of attraction, he's like, Oh, that one started in the Bible too. So, but you're absolutely right. It did. So, I mean, it's as real as it gets. And I'm such a firm believer of that. We actually had an experience today in recruiting, but yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a quick story. We just talking about do tell. Well, we do reoccurring recruiting events every Tuesday and Friday, and it starts with a very simple group call for sales. And I like running them because I don't know, I have some, I have certain things I have a hard time letting go of, but it gives me a chance to just see the group right off the bat. And it's not been. you've got in your mind at the very least what you think and visualize like, okay, these guys and gals are sales folks that can do this door to door or whatever. There's a certain image. And a lot of times you're wrong, but at the very least there's certainly a certain demographic, at least this is where we're starting visually. And you could be wrong, but visually this is where we're starting. And then you get to talking to them and their, their tonality, their body language, the way they present themselves, all these things. Well, there might be one or two in each of these groups, maybe ever, And we do the group and whittle it down to a one-on-one. And that's the whole purpose of the group. This particular one yesterday, we were just talking about having lost someone on the other side in Delaware, not literally, he just quit. And he was trying to do some nefarious stuff. And I could just hear it in Justin, who is the regional, who is just so heck bent on leadership. And like, just, I could tell it was weighing on him as if he had done something wrong, or if he had, and I said, look, man, we've got a recruiting class coming tomorrow. And every time we focus on recruiting and we mentioned like that we're leveling up or anytime we just focus our vibration, if you will, on recruiting, it always seems to attract a higher caliber rep. It just happened that way last week. Two of the best reps that we'd seen in a while, whether they come in or not, they still came in and interviewed. This class today, if you will call it a class, every single one of them was for Delaware, but one and every single one of the ones in Delaware, were like, I'd hire every one of you. I mean, you couldn't, I was so excited. I just stayed on for like an extra 45 minutes and talked to all of them. I said, you know what guys, I needed this today. I like, we ended up having a full on interview with all six of them. And I said, Justin, I think I've got a whole team for you. Not one guy. I said, I think I got a whole team. And he was just, you know, I said, see, I told you, we put it out there. We threw it in the next day, a whole freaking team. you know now whether or not they all work out or not but if you get that in one recruiting class over and over and over man you that's got a whole state just full right and i don't know roger can tell you i was my afternoon was completely like changed and i was just so pumped out because it's such an awesome moment when you put it out there you claim it and it happens and you're like oh wow and then you're surprised when it does and then If you're anything like me, maybe you forget that or you waiver from it. And then you come back and go, Oh yeah, that's right. Whenever I really apply myself or my focus on something and I really truly have faith that it's going to happen shockingly, it kind of just works out that way. And it's like, I don't know, but you strike me as somebody who's could probably write a few books on that himself. I know you're a coach, a speaker. Um, Have you done a whole lot of public speaking or plan to do any of that this year or do you speaking anyway?
Yeah, no, I, well, I speak on a regular basis. So the, um, so I'll do a lot of business speaking. I've been training obviously for years. Um, and, uh, In the area of faith, I speak probably every six to eight weeks at New Hope. So they've got an online audience, about 17,000 people. There's a few thousand in the audience. So there's a lot of that online you could find. But I do quite a bit of sales and leadership coaching as well.
That's what I wanted to get at was the coaching aspect. So you're still doing that now?
Yeah, so professionally, I coach and teach all the time, right? Because I've got a team and a staff that I work with. And, you know, it we're always recruiting like you are. We're always developing people. You know, there's a there's an old saying that, you know, somebody once said, well, what if I don't develop my people or what if I develop them and they leave? Well, what if you don't develop them and they stay? Yeah. We're always coaching, we're always developing. And the reason I focus on sales, leadership, attitude, those kinds of things is because I find that in business, that's what people need. So it's a passion of mine, I've always enjoyed it. But it can be a grind sometimes too, sometimes it can break your heart. But like you can, I focus on getting better myself all the time. Because when I get better, I have something to give away.
Can you elaborate on that? Sometimes it'll break your heart. I think I know what you mean, but I'm just curious. Cause I felt something when you said that just curious.
Yeah. So, you know, um, at some point everyone will leave you. So you can develop relationships. You can invest in people. But I think the heart of a leader is you always want what's best for someone. So, for example, I consulted with one of my sales reps the other day. They've been with me 15 years. They kind of grew up. They've raised families working in our organization. They've become really good. She's one of the best I've ever worked with. But she's at a season of life where her priorities may be a little bit different. So, you will develop people and some will leave you now, some will leave you later, but if you really want what's best for people, if it's time for them to transition and they're going to move to a better opportunity, you know, they always go with my best wishes. That being said, I've had many conversations with people I've recruited, they've been with me a while, and then someone comes knocking on the door suggesting the grass is greener someone out somewhere else or they can make more money and then sometimes they've gone over there and they basically blown up their life. So a lot of times I coach them on how to evaluate the opportunities in front of them and how to evaluate it's not just about money it's about can I grow where I'm currently at am I working with a group of people that believe in me Because you got to have people who believe in you because growth takes time and it's messy and you're going to make mistakes and you're going to screw up. So you want to have a leader who's going to give you time and work with you and give you that mentoring one-on-one. Because frankly, that's how life happens, right? It's one-on-one.
So you, that's a really interesting take. And sorry, I'm isolating one specific part that you were talking about, but it sounded like you were saying that you almost work with and train your folks, how to evaluate these opportunities that, you know, inevitably they're getting, but because same for me, I mean, most of our folks are door to door, especially when they started doing really well, you know, everybody's coming. If they see him find out what they do, whatever everyone, there's a particular company that just apparently makes a living off of mine and one other companies, old folks. But so you kind of train that like, Hey, look, this is going to happen, anticipate this. And if it's better for you, great, but this is how you evaluate it. Am I hearing that correctly?
So that's more one-on-one with them. Okay. In other words, I wouldn't, I wouldn't tell them how to evaluate another employment opportunity. For example, like in a room, I might touch on it, but I do tell people this when I'm interviewing them the first time, can I say, I'm not hiring you for who you are today. I'm hiring for who you can become. I'm hiring you for your potential. And because you're going to be a very different person a year from now, you're going to think differently. You're going to move faster. You're going to speak differently. You're going to make more money. At some point, because you'll become one of the best of the best in your lane, because you're working for the 800 pound gorilla, people will knock on your door. You will get a few job opportunities every year. But if you create the right environment where people can grow and become and reach their potential while they're working for you, they're not gonna come and steal them away for a few more shekels. In fact, here's an analogy I use a lot of times. Let's say someone's making, I'll just say $100,000 and somebody comes and offers them a job. You know what, you'll make 120 with me. So what are we really talking about here? You're gonna blow up your life. You're gonna give up the growth environment that we have here. and you're gonna go somewhere for 20,000 a year, which really nets down to about 10, play the tape to the end. Do you really wanna consider doing this for a few hundred bucks a month, right? So when people really start to count the cost, what they're giving up versus what they're getting, a lot of times they come to the self-conclusion on their own that this is not a better opportunity. The grass isn't greener on the other side, there's just more to mow.
Yeah. Yeah. We were just talking about the other day, the grass is greener where you water it, you know, um, we're still very much in our infancy here at, uh, you know, our, there's a couple of companies with the main companies, uh, roofing and remodeling. And, uh, but I really sell the longterm growth opportunities, you know, like, cause that's what I want to know. I want to know what do I have to invest in? Right. And I think that as a leader and that's what I'm, man, I could talk to you all day about leadership principles and But I do believe, and correct me if you think it's anything else, but as a leader, one of my main jobs for sure is to continue to create, or as a business owner, to continue to create opportunities for my people to grow, like you just said. And if I fail to do that, then how can I be upset if they entertain something somewhere else? But as long as I'm doing that, I'm doing my job.
Yeah, absolutely. If people are just there for a paycheck, then a paycheck will take them somewhere else, but if they're on a road to reaching their potential and they're growing because they're walking that road with you, there's gonna become a loyalty that starts to form in a relationship. And that's, I think, what creates the stickiness. And think about the people you become fiercely loyal to over the years. Is it because of what they paid you or who they helped you become?
Wow. If you listen to anything, I hope you heard what he just said. And you said it quickly. Don't miss it. If people are there for a paycheck, then a paycheck will take them away. And I mean, that's so profound. In other words, everything you're saying, Scott, I just gave me like I. You're right. You know, if you're hiring and you're just throwing like when someone's so as a leader, if we're interviewing, then Scott, you know, I guess you would really focus more on like, okay, Hey, yeah, you're going to make good money. Of course. But look at all these other things that, I mean, does that something you really pile on growth opportunities?
I'm going to be coaching. No, it's very important. In fact, I'll give you another powerful statement. Um, it didn't come from me, but it's a go-to statement for me that People want to work for more than a paycheck. They wanna work for a purpose. So let me explain that for a minute. When I'm interviewing someone based on the season of life they're in, you can kind of get a sense for what they're on the hunt for. Let me give you an example. When I was in my 20s, I wanted to just make a bunch of money because in that season of life, that's what I needed to do and that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm pursuing success for myself and that's what you need to do. But as I, started to develop myself and I was successful, there comes a point that success can leave a hole in the heart that only significance can fill. So as I went into my late 20s and started leading and into my 30s, it was about focusing and developing other people. So my hot button wasn't just making a bunch of money. And now that I'm much older than that, money's important. It's how we keep score. But it's not enough. It's not enough because you can have all the success and prestige and money in the world, but there will be a hole in your heart unless you're developing other people, unless you have a higher purpose, a higher call, a higher road you're walking. Money can only make you happy for so long. So when I say people wanna work for a purpose, not just a paycheck, you've gotta give them something else to hang out to. Like for example, if I'm talking to someone in their 20s, my talk track pitch to them, Ken, is gonna be, let's talk about money, that's important, but let me talk to you about who you're gonna become over the next five, 10 years. and paint them a picture of that. Because now I'm vision casting for their life. Now I'm talking to them about, look, you can make money anywhere, but here's who you'll become along the road. And then from here, you can springboard into other things. And my book Persuade, the seven chapters, I break up into three things. The first three chapters I call are the connection chapters. They're the relationship chapters, right? I put those in the front, Ken, because if you fail with people, you fail in life, right? The next three chapters, I call the competency chapters because you can't suck at what you do. You've got to be good. But the last chapter, I call the character chapters. I'm talking about soft skills because there comes a point where your sales skills fail you, but your character will sustain you where your sales skills don't. And that's something that nobody cares about when they're in their 20s necessarily because they just need to make money. But when you show them that you're going to make all the money you want, but you're going to have to develop yourself, you're going to have to focus on other things. And that's where the higher call, that's where the purpose comes in. And I think people buy into that.
Your character will carry you where your sales skills won't, is that exactly?
Your character will take you where your sales skills fail you.
My fingers can't, I'm just going to have to rewind. I can't keep up. There's too many one liners. I'm loving this, man. I'm just like trying to like,
save these but in reality we are recording it so i suppose you know i just had a thought if i because you're the heart and soul of what you do is door-to-door let me just speak to the door-to-door please please please I think this will resonate with you. Your sales skills will get you in the door, but it's your character that will keep you in the door. How many times have you gotten in the door, you've captured the customer's attention, but within a few minutes, they're looking, they're reading right through you. We all have instincts. I talk about instincts in the law of the sixth sense. It's your character that keeps you in the door. It's your character that where customers will go, you know what? There's something about this guy. I may or may not be interested in what he's selling, but there's something about this girl. I'm going to give them a little bit more time. So who you are and who you're becoming, that's what attracts people, not the feature benefits, your product or the price point. Are you the kind of person they want to do business with? And that's why working with somebody like it can work. They're focused on developing your personhood, not just your prosperity becomes very important.
Oh man, this is, if you're listening to this and you're anybody that has anything to do with hiring or recruiting, this is Recruiting and Hiring 101. And I can tell you that because I'm literally taking notes myself. I mean, I think we get so caught up, especially today in these transactional instances and relationships and in reality, everything that we do, people, especially we're in sales, whether we're recruiting or working with, especially working with salespeople because we're so nuanced and type A and, you know, but to your point, flashy things and stuff like that, like that's like, but then you get it and you're like, well, that doesn't sustain me or satisfy me or fill me at all. So I could totally see that because I've learned that lesson because of where I've been and I learned it real quick. And that's where I had the desire for a family and frankly, to support other people, but do things for other people. You know what I mean? That was what, and it's no coincidence, in the 12-step program, that's the key to our sobriety, right? Is the last step is quite literally, cool, now you got it, give it back. Give it back, that's how you stay sober. So helping other people is the ticket, but I think that there's a parallel there for business and recruiting. And I think you'd probably agree with me, everything you just said is just so powerful. If we just focus on money, then the folks you attract will leave for it. Um, but it just, I think it helps a whole lot too, and that it forces the business, the business owner and the leadership group to level up, to deliver on those things. Because if you're going to sell about, Hey, here's who you're going to become, well, you better be able to deliver on coaching and and building these folks up. Could you speak, you know, we're up on the 30, 45 minute window. I don't know how much time you had, but if you could just real quick, what are you constantly doing to make sure you and all of your folks are sharp and maintaining the ability to deliver on these things to make sure that you're able to meet those standards and, and pour into those folks, because there's the other end of that.
Yeah. So, you know, I'm a big believer in personal development, and I'm very disciplined in how shall I say? I have a personal development plan that I follow. So I'm a big believer in sharpening the saw, but I like to learn from people, a wide range of people, if you will. I actually start to get depressed if enough days go by and I haven't been reading or listening. So the thing that helps me keep sharp and helps me keep at the edge of my game is to continually learn and continually grow. And, you know, I have found that, you know, How shall I say this? At least once a year, Ken, I experience what I would call a feeling of career mortality. The feeling that, gosh, I don't know if I can make this turn. I don't know if I can do this. How much longer can I do it? Or there's people better, faster, stronger in this area where I'm struggling to keep up. but it's going back to the well and continually learning and looking for new ways to improve. It's that, in fact, there's a word I'll give you. I don't know if you've heard of it before. It's a Japanese word. It's the word kaizen, K-A-I-Z-E-N. Right after World War II, there was a loom maker whose name was Toyota with a D. And the focus of Kaizen was continual improvement, and it wasn't just about getting better every day, but it was the spirit behind the principle of wanting to learn more. And it wasn't just enough to improve, but to improve upon improvement. That loon maker Toyota with a D became Toyota with a T. And of course, we know Toyota is one of the biggest car companies. Oh, wow. But when they were rebuilding Japan after World War II, Kaizen became a critical management principle that helped Japan accelerate. In fact, it's taught many American companies today. But that's that hunger to want to keep getting better. I think you've got to have that desire inside of you. But that's what keeps me sharp. And frankly, it's what keeps me alive. It's what keeps me paid.
Just the constant seeking to grow and be better. And I would imagine in all areas, because I mean, theology, business, sales, and would you attribute a ton of your success to, because you mentioned sales and everything, that you're, you're, you're doing now, I mean, would you say sales was kind of that catalyst that allowed you to do, I mean, coach business? I mean, yeah.
Oh, absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up. You know, um, Sales to a lot of people is a four-letter word, right? Because they have the stereotype it's a pushy salesman. But the truth is we're all in the persuasion business, right? I mean, teachers teach in a way so they'll hold the students' attention. Leaders lead so followers will follow in the radio business, right? Singers even sing in a way so fans will buy their album. So we're all in sales. We're all in the persuasion business. The question is, are you any good at it? So, you know, persuasion, by the way, is different than influence. You know, influence means to have an effect on somebody, where persuasion means to actually move people in conversation. I think, you know, my goal isn't to improve on everything. You have to pick your lanes. That's why SALT represents for me sales, attitude, which is mindset, leadership, and theology. You've got to pick what you want to be a student in. Because the secret to mastery is becoming a student and remaining a student. So my lanes were sales, attitude, mindset, leadership, and theology. What are your lanes? What have you decided to commit your life to learning? And part of that's going to have to do with what your gift set is, right? So you've got to find out what you do well, what God wired you to do, figure out what your gift set is, and develop a learning system around developing the natural gifts that you have. And I think that's really key for success in whatever we're going to do. So while my focus is SALT, yours may be something completely different based on how you're wired.
Wow. Well. I know if you're listening to this show, this has been an absolute, I would, I mean, I feel like we've got to get you on again if you would be so kind, but my goodness, man. I mean, first of all, go listen, go buy is it's on audible, right? I know you can buy a hard copy, but go check out persuade. I mean, actually I think I just saw somewhere it's like in Russian or Romanian or something like that.
And so one of my books is in Romania. Actually, I've got an interesting story to tell you. So do we have time? Can I share? Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely. So this is crazy. So my last book was actually a faith based book. It's a devotional called Divine Intelligence. And it's basically it takes five minutes to read a devotion for the day. And all it does is it takes a scripture of the day, and it connects it to a success principle for your everyday business life. Anyways, long story short. Right after it came out, this business guy called me, very successful business guy. And he said, hey, can we republish this and reprint it in Romania? And I'm like, OK. So like, Ken, you're not going to believe this. Like three weeks ago, I get this phone call and there's this guy not too far from me. He says, Scott, I'm the one who translated into Romania. I'd like to meet you. So we get together and spend the day together. I get a copy of this is actually that book in Romania. I can't tell you what's in it. I can't read Romania. But their ultimate goal is to print a quarter of a million and put it in the hands of every college student in Romania. And I was like, wow, talk about increasing your service. So film at 11. I can't wait to see what happens with that.
And what an absolute impact, man. So that's really cool. So I just real quick, uh, that's the other one. Divine intelligence. Is that what I saw that one, uh, as well. That's so it does connect. uh, your spiritual and, and success. Oh yeah. Okay.
So there's a lot of, uh, so here's the subject there, there, there's a few dozen devotionals on sales, a few dozen on leadership. Are you starting to hear the common theme? Um, so there's, there's a handful of them on how to discover your gifts, your natural giftings. There's a lot on mentorship. but there's a lot on how to overcome struggles and crisis in your life because everybody faces that stuff. So there's a lot of different themes on that, but it's, it's Monday through Friday, 52 weeks. So there's 260 different devotionals with all different kinds of themes.
Divine intelligence. Yeah. So I'm going to have to, uh, is this something that you yourself practice daily still?
Yeah, no, absolutely. It's not that I just practice it. I live it. So You know, one of my, you know, one of the things I think people struggle with is, you know, there's a lot of people who have a desire for relationship with God, but they don't understand how it works. Or they meet crazy Christians. I know a lot of them. Or religion is just a turn off because of what they've seen. So my goal was to take one scripture. Here's how it practically applies to your life. So the subtitle is Discover God's Wisdom for Your Work Life. So it's for people who are in pursuit of success.
And how do I bring God into that in a way that's not goofy or even frowned upon, like as if God couldn't be brought into like, you know what I mean? Making money or being successful. Isn't like, I don't know. I really, really dig this because I don't, I, you know, I think too often it's like, people have this idea that like, I don't know, the two can't coexist. And it's like, well, I couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, But do you know what I mean? Like, I don't think anyone like you, but I do.
There's the, I'll give you this great scripture. It's Deuteronomy 8, 28. Listen to what the Lord said. He said, it's I, who gives you the ability to create wealth with your hands. So I can confirm my promises for you. So think about God is like the most ultimate father in the world who loves you. He's not angry at you. He wants relationship. He's with you all the time. Anyways, you may not know that, but so when you bring him into your, into your work life, It's him who gives you wisdom for how to close business, how to connect with people, how to improve different areas of your life. A lot of people I think see God as someone who's condemning or upset with them or he's distant, but he's not, he's right there. So the more you involve him, in fact, I'll tell you an interesting story. Remember I told you I went, I started selling when I was 20 years old. One of the things that I did before I went into every sales call is I would sit there with my pad of paper in the car. And I had a 1990 Toyota Celica at the time. And I would literally, I would start to write out what are the questions I should ask this customer when I do my needs analysis. And I would just take a minute and I'd probably say, Lord, please give me favor with this client I'm about to have this conversation with. Give me the wisdom to know how to answer their questions and how to overcome their objections. In Jesus name, amen. And in a very simple, practical way, show me how to close business. Show me how to what are the right questions. And the interesting thing is when you see God, he promises to be found by you. So, you know, he's all about success.
Dude. Oh, Scott, man, I I feel weird at this point because now I'm gushing like a little fangirl, but I don't know. I'm just it's been awesome, man. I'm taking this all in. I got to tell you, I've had a lot of podcasts, a lot of even coaches of my business coaches. But man, I hope there's been a lot of value dropped here. First of all, I can't wait to check out the book Divine Intelligence. I'm really pumped about that because I've been looking for something I've been. No, no, I've kind of just my day to day life has shown up often and I beat myself up if I'm not like, you know, militant with my morning routine or whatever. And it's like, well, you know, dogs had surgery, wife's trying to get pregnant, whatever, right? Like this morning, now you've got to adjust your morning routines or you get up earlier, do that later, whatever. But, uh, I think this could be a huge benefit, but man, everything that you're talking about, I'd love to introduce you to, I know I'm sure you're very busy, but anyhow, we're going to have to talk offline because there's a million things I want to ask you and try to see if I could get some more of your time with some of my team. And I've been so impressed, man. Scott, why aren't you everywhere right now, man? What are you doing? We got to get you out. We got to put you out there, brother.
Yeah, well, you know what? That's a great question, and I'm afraid my answer might disappoint you, but... I'm a very assignment oriented person, Ken. I, I'm going to do what I feel God leads me to do. Like, for example, the reason I don't work in ministry full-time vocationally is I'm not called to do that. I'm called to be a broadcaster, to develop people, um, in business and in sales and in leadership. So I'm very particular, you know, our good friend, Sean, I, I told him one time I said, Sean, if you offered me $10 million a year, starting tomorrow, I wouldn't quit my job to go do this unless I felt like it was a new calling. So what drives me is that purpose. It's not just the paycheck. And so that's why I'm not everywhere, because I've got to be careful where I put my time and energy, because like you, I've got limited time, energy. I've got limited energy. I've got limited bandwidth. And I've got to make sure that I'm serving those people that are assigned to me, like my wife, my kids, my team.
So. I love it, man. And I said that with, I know, and now I clearly see why Sean's definitely trying to push you, push you out there more. I get it now. I get it. I get it. I get it. But Scott, this has been absolutely amazing. Uh, I guys check out both divine intelligence and definitely persuade. I mean, I'm really pumped. Actually. I think that is going to be, it was going to be the five levels of leadership, but our new, and I'm going to get back to you and let you know what we all think. our new leadership, we do a leadership monthly book reading. So our new leadership monthly book reading this month is going to be Persuade. So I'm really pumped to see that and read that as a leadership group and then get back. It's not often we get a chance to kind of feedback with the author. So I'll let you know what the whole team has to say.
And I'd love to talk to the team. We could do a group Zoom sometime, but I'm at your service. Thank you for the opportunity.
And it's been an honor. Absolutely. The honor is all mine guys. Check out his book. Scott, just real quick. I know you're not everywhere, but is there anywhere that you'd like folks to visit you, whether it's on LinkedIn, any website, anything like that?
You know, um, uh, you can find the books on Amazon or wherever books are sold. Um, you'll actually see in the last couple of months that we started our conversation talking about Bailey. Um, so my son has got me to create a lot more content for online. So you'll find me online on all the regular social media websites, and I hope you like what you see.
Scott Hogle each time, correct? Yep. Yep. All right. Fantastic. Yeah. Well, I've had no problem finding you, so I'm sure they won't either, but check out the books. Let Scott know what you think. And if you have any questions, leave comments in the, this will be on YouTube and everywhere else, but Scott, I cannot wait to talk to you again, my friend. Thank you so much. The pleasure is all mine and we look forward to talking to you soon. God bless.
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