In episode 49 of The Kitchen Table, Ken Baden sits down with Jon Paramore as they discuss the importance of listening and collaborating with others, even when it's challenging. They also touch on the significance of personal growth and continuous learning, no matter how experienced you are.
Tune in as we dive into valuable insights for entrepreneurs and anyone looking to make their mark in the market this year.
TIMESTAMPS
[00:08:06] Exterior Home Improvement Trends.
[00:12:14] Targeting Early Entrepreneurs.
[00:15:10] Building a Solid Foundation.
[00:18:11] Training as a Sniper.
[00:22:07] The Value of Sales Systems.
[00:25:00] The Word "Coach" Being Overplayed.
[00:31:21] Coaching Qualifications and Credibility.
[00:34:59] Future Plans and Goals.
In this episode, Ken Baden and Jon Paramore believe in being direct and efficient, avoiding any unnecessary time-wasting. They make it clear that they don't play games or waste anyone's time, especially when working with clients. They also express gratitude for the existence of experts in the industry who have different approaches, allowing individuals to choose the person they align with the most and work with them.
Overall, Ken and Jon highlight the value of consulting as a resource for individuals and businesses seeking guidance and expertise in their respective fields. The presence of experienced consultants in the industry provides opportunities for individuals to seek assistance and support in achieving their goals.
QUOTES
SOCIAL MEDIA LINKS
Ken Baden
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/officialkenbaden/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheKenBaden
Jon Paramore
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealjonparamore/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jon.paramore/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-paramore/
WEBSITES:
The Kitchen Table Podcast: https://thekitchentablepodcast.net/
Jon Paramore: https://jonparamore.com/
SMASH: https://www.thesmashco.com/
Welcome to the kitchen table, a podcast about where business is done. So pull up a chair and join your host, Ken Baden.
All right. Welcome back to another episode of the kitchen table podcast where business gets done. I've got my guest today, John Perrymore, all the way from, I keep wanting to say, I know St.
Louis, St. Louis, Charlotte, all the places, man.
Yeah. Charlotte on the weekends. Well, no, that's not true. Every other week. Yeah. Every other week, Charlotte, every other week. And St. Louis technically is that, yeah, that's where I'm from originally. Yeah. Missouri is, uh, I've got a couple of peers of mine in Missouri. One of which you've worked with and you had him on your podcast. Yeah. I had Brandon on, but you actually had them on the podcast. I had them on zoom. Yeah. And studio like, yeah. I got the knockoff, not, but you're here. Yeah. So, and now you're coaching Brandon, right? Yeah.
I mean, so like I've got, I don't like the word coaching, but I'm helping him help him grow the business.
I can say, Oh, coaching only in that. He called it that. So yeah. All right.
We'll go.
Brandon didn't call it that. I wouldn't say that. Trust me. Brandon's not one of the guys, especially coming from where we come from. We might be in the business world now, but you know, I don't want any, I don't want any problems. Yeah. So But in all seriousness, man, we're doing a lot of stuff here. You know, you're here helping me personally. So, you know, he didn't just fly out for, as cool as it would be, just for the podcast.
I mean, I make people fly out just for my podcast.
I've actually had a few people that were like, yeah, bro, I'll fly out. We'll make a bit. I'm like, my podcast studio is in my office, man. And I squeeze in when I can. But Josh was one of those. He was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. We'll fly out. We'll do it. Zoom's fine, man. Zoom's fine. I like your dedication though. Yeah, I do too. I mean, I think he was almost dismissive of like, Zoom. Yeah, too good for Zoom. At any rate, we got you here because we enlisted your services. You are helping us scale the same way that you did Brandon and there's a lot. I've been in this industry for 16 years now. I've done this four different times with four different companies, two for myself, but I've never gotten past that 10 million mark. You, for yourself, and I'll let you tell the story. First of all, tell the audience kind of how you got here, if you would be so kind, and why I've enlisted your services, and we'll kind of go from there.
Let's see. So, we're in 2024. This will be my 24th year in the construction space, right? So, I was an active owner for 16 years, built a big company, sold it, started doing consulting work in 2014. So, we're going on 10 years of doing consulting work. Um, and so, yeah, we've done, we started, we started with a smaller company doing consulting work. Uh, they were in the St. Louis area. Um, really great people. We helped scale them up, open new locations with them, things like that. And then, uh, it just kind of happened organically. We didn't do a bunch of advertising. We just started putting things out, uh, going to events that I started speaking for. uh, North America's largest shingle manufacturer, GAF. I was an expert value series speaker for them for a year and a half. Yeah. So, um, on the, on the speaking tour and helping people, uh, on that side of thing. And then, and then it kind of just got, it kind of got bigger, um, after that. So, uh, we, we had a, we have a recruiting agency, we do a lot on the marketing side of things. But primarily, I mean, we, we grew those agencies to a very, very big, and about two and a half years ago, we kind of brought those down. And now we only do recruiting for our active clients, marketing stuff for our active clients. We don't outwardly talk about or publicize a lot of that stuff. We mostly focus on the growing scale aspect of it, the consulting side of it. And then if our clients need help with recruiting or marketing or whatever, we help them with that side too. But my, my expertise comes in the side of Uh, all the way if, you know, if somebody is still at buildup side, you know, if they're, they're a million or so over and they want to scale, but they just are missing all the systems and process procedures, or they got the right people, but maybe they're in the wrong seat or whatever. It's a lot of just realigning all the things to where it gives them a smoother path, um, you know, to, to grow to the organization, to whatever size they want to grow to.
And that's the only downside of having these tight suits. Trying to like, you're getting too swole, man. Oh yeah. That's what it is. That's what it is. I had no idea you were a GAF. Uh, so are you familiar with the roof expert? Adam Bensman? Yeah. So, uh, Adam is now working with Owens Corning and that's obviously our preferred manufacturer, but I cut my teeth on GAF GAF. Did you ever, I don't know. I don't know if that would have been any relation to you whatsoever, but Maria was our rep and Maria is now in Florida and she's like, Jersey, just firecracker of a rep, you know what I mean? Like the type where it's like, something's wrong and she's like, takes it personal. Like, so it was really easy to do business with them. And I love GAF and they were a great company. It's just, you know, Owens Corning, the owner of the company that I last worked at, that consequently also was the last time that I got You know, screwed, I was going to do air quotes, but there is no air. I was screwed out of money. It's a fact. So, but it was the last time that happened, but he put Owens Corning on his house and I'm like, you're putting Owens Corning on it. So at least got my eyeballs on it. And, uh, anyhow, so, and we, it's been a pleasure working with them, but, uh, I think Maria moving was a big catalyst, but that's really cool, man. I mean, I feel like that says a lot. because you don't get those positions and they don't just put just anybody, you know, they usually do the research pretty, pretty good.
Yeah. So I had no, we, um, we, I actually started, I mean, I'll date myself a little bit. I'll, we started, uh, when I first got in the business installing elk, You remember elk? I don't even know. Okay. So there was a shingle manufacturer called elk, uh, back in the day. Great, great product. Uh, and then I would say probably 2010, 20, 2009, somewhere in there, GAF bought elk. Uh, and so then they merged the two technologies together. Um, and so we were kind of transitioned into GAF by our elk rep. Uh, but, but then we had a, a big, um, manufacturing issue show up on a shingle that we installed, uh, in a large community. Um, and the GAF rep came out and made it right with no questions asked, uh, which kind of, which kind of, you know, put me on the GAF bus a little bit. And then we became master elite and then kind of just, uh, took off from there. But, you know, now in today's world though, you know, like And I'm still, I still like GAF, but I'm also like OC has a really great product. I'm a big fan of the, you know, the duration, the sure nail and all of that stuff, you know, and certainty to me, the big three are still running strong. I know a lot of guys install IKO and, you know, Atlas and malarkey and all that's, that's fine. But you know, that's, that's where I grew up. That's just in my, in my blood, so to speak.
I couldn't understand why anybody would and not to, because I, I, by the way, uh, first of all, I consulted. No, everybody knows my story. So there's no secrets here. So six years now, uh, sober, but in year one, gentlemen that was trying to hire me back when I was selling for whenever one of the companies I was working for, I started no eight something windows, but that was the thing back then. It really wasn't roofing at least here. It was, Windows, windows, windows. They were energy star credits. They're moving like hotcakes. It was a terrible time for the economy, but people were staying put. They're reinvesting back in their homes and they were buying windows. There was a show about it, like white gold. And then it became roofing. But, and I often wondered too, if that like cyclical nature of like the exterior world, like pops back around. Cause you were putting a big emphasis on siding yesterday. And I, first of all, the numbers are great. It's a natural one, two. I mean, in the world I come from, in the retail side, power, windows, they start you, windows, siding, roofing, or windows, roofing, siding, I believe was the order. And they might throw some gutters in there. There's doors, but the exterior combo is usually windows, siding, doors, gutters, roof. You know, like those are the things. To them, it's not weird to have those different components. It's not like- They kind of all just go together. Right. And people are like, oh, you need to focus on, to them, they're probably like, we are focusing on one thing exteriors. Yeah, right, right. But it's retail. Yeah, they're getting the leads the same way each product, they get quickly with good margins, you know, and you can install them quickly. So there's a theme it's not they're not doing interiors. Sure. You know what I mean? There's a bunch of moving pieces. So I mean, what are your what are your thoughts on I was really what I was driving at was I was surprised to hear some of the people that I don't want to say that I looked up to installing lesser quality shingles, but it was still surprising to see like, oh man, this guy's putting in Atlas or IKO or TAMCO. And I myself put in TAMCO at one point. It's just a, what you would think would be a, cause you're right. The big three certainty GAF, Orange Hornet, period, bar none. There is nothing to debate, but there's a reason behind that. And I'll let you take, I figured it out, but I'll let you explain like when you see that and it's a different market, there's probably a good reason for it.
Yeah, I just think for me, and again, this is just my personal opinion. I'm not taking this out on any particular manufacturer or any of that good stuff. But for me, those brands have stood the test of time, GAF, OC, certainty, right. And then some of these other ones are kind of working their way up. I, you know, obviously from a manufacturing standpoint, everything is reasonably close or similar. I know the warranties are a little bit different. I know the way they produce or, or how they make the shingle is a little bit different, whatever. But in my mind, I'm, to me, I've always kind of lean toward the guys who've been doing it for a really long time. And so, uh, I can't talk bad and, uh, about any of the other products. I could talk bad about one in particularly, but I won't. Um, but, um, um, you know, I think also, you know, obviously that let's state the obvious, uh, the big three are a little bit more expensive. The, some of the, some of the other ones are a little bit less expensive. So guys that are trying to make margin are probably going to install a little, a little bit, uh, uh, Um, you know, one of the, one of the lower grade shingles in my opinion. Uh, so, you know, that's, to me, that's the big, that's the big difference.
And we tried the same thing. We weren't getting what we needed. Our prices weren't coming down. And we told very transparently, I went to Corning like, look, we got to do something. We're getting a better price on this. Regrettably. And I won't throw out, I just did, but like, we won't bring it back up. But in the cold weather, it was just not, my guys hated it. They were like, we won't install this anymore. Now I'm cold. So.
I mean, let's be honest too. I mean, there are definitely some of the lines of, of the OC and GAF and particularly that when they're installed, they look night and day different than everything else on the market. I mean, there's not a designer series brand of shingles, uh, And again, in my opinion, that looks better than a GAF, uh, you know, Camelot or, you know, slate line or something like that on a roof. Right. There's just, there's just really not a lot of things that can compete with it. So I think it, I think it really just comes down to you as an organization. What do you want to stand for? Are you, are you putting something on because you want to make sure that it's not going to leak, you're not going to have a problem with it in the future, you know, things like that, or, or are you more concerned about the bottom line margin? And I think there's a happy medium in there. I think there's a place to get in there where you can have both. But, uh, I've always just erred on the side of, I want to do what's right and what's best for the, for the customer and put on, put on the best product. Number one, because it's right for them. Number two, because I don't really, I'm not really fond of going back and fixing a lot of leak issues and, and blow off and you know, whatever. So, uh, that's just where I stand for it.
And I think that, I mean, we put in Owens Corning, so if we can afford to, that's what we do. But you brought up something that I think is a really good point. So you're here, you help people, you mentioned like usually who your target demo is, at least a little bit, but I think a lot of the folks that listen to this show are probably early, you know, you're year one through five. Some of them, I mean, I say that and then Adam Champagne comes to mind who listens to this regularly. He's one of my original mentors that just truly I don't pay or anything like that. Somebody who is a big name around here. He's a CEO of home fix. They're a top 25 remodeling magazine company. They just bought a new look, which is probably another top 25. They're both heavy retail. I mean, 99% they would compete with like, say a power. They're not power and Adam, I love you, but he would tell you that. I mean, power, I think might be a billion dollar company now, but at any rate, they're damn close and what they've created. He's the CEO of that and probably six other companies, Pure Finance, Install Services. At any rate, he was getting his haircut at the same place as I was and like a creepy, I don't know, stalker, trying to get a date. I asked for his number from my barber and he was like, I'll make sure it's okay. He gave it to me, asked him if he would have coffee. Dude, he had me meet him at one of his businesses and took me to the other three that morning, like bright and early, meet me, took me all around, just started What's the net net? What's your, this, what's your things? I didn't even, I'm like, I don't know. Yeah. I didn't know. I didn't know that. I didn't know. And I had done this already once before. So I'm like, ah, yeah, I'm going to, and I had no clue what any of that stuff was. So, I mean, I, that was a really great lesson and. And I think for me too, sobriety even, it's just taught me so much that when you finally are like, I don't fucking know all of it. I just don't. And you know what? I'm probably never gonna know all of it. I'm 46 and I don't know all of it. I can always learn more. And you said, I have a coach, I'm learning, right? So it goes, it trickles down. You can always find, you may learn more, you may get better, but there's always someone else to learn from. What would you say early year one through five or, or, you know, prospective entrepreneur, anybody looking to get into this market this year, what are the things that you would recommend right off the bat? Like just some baseline to dues. Uh, we've got Spider-Man in the studio. Sorry. Why exactly? We got, uh, our, uh, our videographer literally just like Spider-Man around. We're trying to keep it, keep it here. But, What would you say are some big things to do or top three for your new businesses in 2024, like given the market, given the volatility, all of those things?
I think, so for me, it doesn't matter. if you're a zero or you're, you're a million or you're 3 million, um, somewhere in there, the foundation of things has to be set and established. Right. And I think a lot of guys get out of the gate. They're quick to produce revenue. Uh, they want to get the dollars up as fast as they can. And then, and then like reality sets in that it's not just about the dollars and cents. That's obviously very, very important. but without the fundamental foundational core of the, you know, the systems, operations, procedures, processes, SOPs, POAs, all the things in there, you quickly are going to run up against a wall, right? Because your your team starts to get lost in the hustle. Maybe you figure out that you got some people on the team that don't belong in the team. I mean, there's just a lot of things but If I, if I was going to build it all over again, if I was going to start today, if I was just going to say, okay, I'm going to stop consulting, I'm going to rebuild a contracting company. Uh, I'm starting with the foundational of all the things, right? I want to, I want to, I want to have a very solid plan on what I'm going to do with my marketing. Um, you know, even if it's, even if it's what I'm going to do is generate leads from doorknocking and my guys are, I want to make sure my guys know how to go out and doorknock correctly. They have a process on how they win. Um, there, there's an actual mapped out way that they go about doing what they're doing. They're, they're not just, Um, so often what I say is like, there's two types, there's, well, there's like three types of salespeople, but in the world of, of what we're doing, there's mainly two, uh, and there's either the ones that like you as an owner hand somebody a machine gun and you send them over a hill and they're, and they're, they're not really sure how to use it, but they just start shooting everything. Right. And so they end up, they end up, uh, using a ton of energy, and they come back with things, but they also made a mess in the wake, right? Or there's a second type of guy where the owner is very meticulous, very well thought out, the way that the process they're going to go about it, the strategy is really strong, and the way they execute is really strong, so they create a sniper. right? So they put a sniper in a tree. And so when all the things happen, it's very, everything that happens is very coordinated, very direct, very deliberate. So they're still killing, or for lack of a better word, they're still hunting and, and killing and producing on a very large level, but it's, it's way less chaos. It's much more calm. It's way less messy. Right? So I think in the beginning, most people start out and they, they bring out some sales guys, a hand, a machine gun and say, Hey man, here's a polo. Good luck. You know, uh, and, and we hear this a lot where the owners are like, I, I don't know how to train guys. I just know how to sell. Right. Okay. Well, why don't you write out the process of how you sell that? That becomes a training module. We'll teach these guys to do what you're doing. Right. Um, but, but, but again, if I could do it all over again, I would, I would legitimately start with a process for all things. I would sit down and go, okay, most guys that get in this industry start as a sales rep somewhere, right? Somewhere. right? So if they could just start there and go, okay, what do I do every day? How do I go find prospects and start writing all that out? Now they have a process, right? And by the time we, by the time we, they call us and they engage, they're typically in a spot where they're like, okay, I'm stuck. Now what? Now what am I supposed to do from this point? Right? So it's like, All the things that you thought about along the way to get to here, we're actually going to slow you down enough and create all of that. We're going to put all that in place. And then we're going to, we're going to, we're going to polish it up a little bit. We're going to give you a little more training, and then we're going to send you out as a sniper. You and your team from now on are not going to operate willy nilly with a loaded machine gun. We're going to stick, we're going to put a rifle in your hand. We're going to teach you how to use it. And every target that you hit from here forward is going to be very precise and deliberate.
Can I stress enough the importance of that? And I can tell you that from a personal, I have no problem. I mean, again, for me, I think my single best attribute is probably the ability to throw any sort of ego to the side and say, I want to know, because for me, it's the easiest way to my goal. Like, okay, get out of the way. For so many years, like I let ego keep me or self-will, something's like something like, I'm like I can figure this out and it's either ego or I don't know either way that's been life firmly took a big step on my forehead when I Became homeless and those things they tend to humble you Yeah, and so I think that coming back from all of that has made it really easy for you. All right, whatever I want to get to this goal And the easiest, fastest way is to find somebody who's done it and ask them how to do it.
Not to interrupt you, but let's be real, right? And when I, when I first got into this business, there, there weren't such thing as consultants. There were no, bro, we had to figure it out. There was no other way, right? We could go ask our competitors, but most guys were so afraid that they had something that you didn't have. They wouldn't even share it with you. So we had to figure it out. So in today's day and age, I tell people this all the time, you don't need to live in the world to figure it out anymore. because someone already knows how to do it. You just have to find the guy and create a value exchange of some sort on YouTube. Yeah. I mean, it's the information is out there at this point in time, right? If we, if any, me included any point in time where I'm in a space of like, Oh, I I'm thinking about, man, if I could just figure this thing out, I'm like, dude. So I use this term sometimes you're mentally masturbating. That's all you're doing. You're just, you're, you're trying to make, Oh, if I just figure it out, then I can give myself the credit, but that's dumb. Right. Somebody somebody out there knows how to do what it is that I want to do. My responsibility in figuring it out is figure out who the hell knows it. Right. And then engage with them, create some type of value proposition or value exchange. And then away we go. Right. Everything now. I mean, I've learned more probably in the last I would say 10 years than I did all the other because I spent so much time in the space of figuring it out, where now it's like, what I know is I can collapse time by creating value exchanges. So if I build relationships with people, and we create some type of mutual value exchange, I can collapse the time in which it takes me to learn it. And then what I have to do is just learn it. And it breaks down to, sorry, I get on a rant with these things. But It breaks down to the uber simple, right? Can you generate a lead at will? Can you actually, other than door knocking, can you go generate a lead, right? If the answer to the question is no, then the thing you need to learn or the thing you need to quote unquote figure it out is who the hell knows how to generate a lead at will in this space and how do I get to meet them and what's the value exchange that I'm going to provide in order for them to teach me how to go generate leads at will without door knocking. There's nothing wrong with door knocking, but if we can, if we can doorknock and have this, then now we're really powerful. Right. So it's, and it's, it's the same thing, marketing, sales, operations, recruiting, uh, doing the production thing that we all do. It's, we want to make these things as efficient as possible. Right. There are, I'm not saying that they're ever going to be easy, but we want to make them super efficient.
He just, and he just described probably like most of you, right? Sure. And obviously, and that's me, by the way, he's sitting right here. So I'm not like, it's, I have a consulting company for instance, and in a coaching company, admittedly like probably poorly timed, but like my point is, The consulting company was originally created because a, I didn't have any more energy or I didn't think I did. I was over trying to be owner, whatever. I really liked training salespeople. I liked the sales systems because I saw the value. What a concept, a system as thorough sales system, even though my natural instinct isn't evil. isn't even to gravitate towards that, but I think that because of some of the chaos and that once I saw that that worked, it was so attractive, and I love teaching it to other folks, and I just take what I learned at Power, what I learned here, what I learned here, and condense that, and then it's very similar to Adam's SLAP or whatever it is, his acronym, It's just predicated on rapport, emotion, building a value, creating urgency. You know, like you said, problem, solution, feature, benefit. I mean, it's all the same system components, but my point is, even then, what I think is my biggest frustration is that I have a consulting company that focuses on training sales reps, and I don't feel like I train my sales reps enough. You know what I mean? That's the truth. I feel like it's like I try or I may, that's not my only job right now. Sure. So I try, but like, you know, trying is not doing or, or they got a little bit and we had, we have a system for door like, okay, you know, when you knock the door, it's the three W's and it's this, and then it's this, and here's the C. But do they really know it? How well do they really know it? Does everyone really know it? It's just knowing the importance of that has led me to, I need some help. Like, we knew we needed to audit our systems over this winter. That was our whole plan. We talked about it, but we kept talking about it. We weren't taking any action. We, we blocked off mornings for all winter and we're going to audit all of our stuff and we're going to make it all. We weren't doing it. And we wouldn't probably have done it to be honest with you. So Brandon, thank God was like, look, man, I think that this could really help you. He met some of my guys at the, and they're all new. I mean, it was just a recipe for like brand new guys, couple left over auditing, everything systems, all this stuff, trying to get it all done at one point. And you're trying to do it essentially by yourself. Cause they don't know, they don't know the system. You got a bunch of new guys. So get out of your own way is what I would say and look for a John. And this isn't like a promotion or anything like that. It's just straight. It doesn't have to be John. Anybody.
There's a lot of good guys out there. Right. Um, I think the, when I'm, when I'm looking for a consultant, uh, or a, uh, quote unquote coach, I'll talk about why I don't like that word, but, but, um, I, I try to find people that are in alignment with my values, believe similarly to what I believe, speak to me in a way that I want to be spoken to. Um, you know, and so I'm pretty direct, like if you haven't figured that out already, but I'm, I'm pretty direct in how I speak. Uh, I believe in making sure that, you know, and all the clients that I work with, no, I'm not there to waste anybody's time. So I don't play Patsy or grab ass or any of that stuff, but there are some consultants and coaches that are a little more gentle in their approach. So I'm grateful that there's, uh, in today's world, there's a group of people that are, that are experts that do understand this industry as a whole. And you get to, you get to, as a human go, okay, which one of these guys am I most in alignment with and, and pick that person and go to work with them. Right. And sometimes it takes one to get you to one level, and then it'll take you another one to get to a different level. You know, so on and so on. So that's also something to consider, right? Not all guys can, not all guys have been where I've been. I haven't been where some other guys have been, you know, so I think there's just a stepping stone in that too.
So I love that.
Why don't you like the word, the word coach? I think it gets overplayed. Um, I, so, a few years, like let's, let's go back like maybe five or six years ago, there was, there really wasn't that many quote unquote coaches in the market. Now it's like, now it's like there's coaches out there that'll, that'll talk to you about, um, what coffee to drink in order to take a shit in the morning. Right. Right. I mean, it's just like everybody wants to be a coach for all things. Right. Like, uh, there's probably podcast coaches out there. There's probably, um, how to use a user board coach out there. There's how to make awards coach out there. Right. So I don't like that word coach. Like to me, um, you know, I coach people, I think just naturally in general. I have children, so I'm my kids coach just in general, but I'm also like their leader. I'm their dad. You know, I'm a, I'm an advisor type of thing, but in the world of business altogether, I don't, I'm not really coaching you on shit, bro. I don't have to tell you to go get up, get your ass up in the morning and go to the gym. I don't have to tell you how to dress. I don't have to tell you how to brush your hair or any of that shit. I consult you on what I feel are some solid practices of how to grow your business. And, and, and then, you know, once in a while, we got to keep some, we got to have some conversations about life in general. If you, if you get off track or, you know, whatsoever, but my job is not to coach you. My job is to give you, is to consult you or be a guide to you and just give you a, a little bit of a clear path for you to operate inside of. And, and then if you, you know, I mean, if you, if you did want my advice on something in particular, maybe I'd coach you on that, but that's, That's not my job, man. My job is to consult you on what it is that you need. Uh, and, and that's pretty much it. So I like the word consultant consulting has been around for, for years and years and years and years and years. Good friend of mine works at. Ernst & Young, which is a monster consulting company for a billion dollar organization. So he's not coaching people either. He's going in and auditing people's books and saying, bro, you got somebody embezzling shit from you right here. So that kind of thing. But yeah, anyway, so I just have a stigma around it. I think there's too many people. You go out and build a funnel tomorrow on Go High Level and you can run some Facebook ads. Now you've been doing it for less than a year and now you're trying to coach people on it. That's horseshit. Yeah. I mean, so, uh, you know, anyway, that's, that's my rant.
We could go on and on because you know, and I wasn't looking, I have Baden consulting and that was also kind of like a conflict. Baden consulting was my first company that I started when I was at the last company. I was like, I don't know, man, I don't know if I got it in me. Like I'd done the couple startups, I wasn't the owner. And that was ultimately like, all right, maybe, maybe if I'm calling the shots, like, cause it was like sales manager, then VP, then it's like, there's nowhere else to go, but that's the last stop. You know what I mean? Or like partner at the very least. But when I started the consulting gig, I was like, why don't you just stick to what I like? I like training salespeople. I like building sales teams. And a lot of guys get stuck. Like I, how do I, how do you recruit salespeople? Like I've been very fortunate. Like it's been easier, easier, easier. It's been easier for me. It's been easier for me, but I think that's because I was probably taught well now you're here to help me expand on that. But like me comparatively to somebody who doesn't know anything, there's a consulting opportunity there.
But, um, you have a way that you do it, that works really, really well. It just needs to be put into a process. So when you, when you decide one day, like, Hey, I'm going to exit the company. Um, you know, I want to make sure whomever takes over next has a well-oiled machine without me being there of how to exactly repeat what I've been doing. Right. Duplicate what I've been doing.
Important, man. And again, that's what John is, is so far he's been, Absolute pleasure, man. I'm really excited to, uh, outside of, and there's a lot of things too, you know, you bring somebody in, what's the point of bringing them in if you just don't listen to anything, you know, as hard as it may be. And there are a lot of hard things, especially when it comes to people and stuff like that. But, uh, speaking of which we got some folks waiting on us. We got to get to work. We just came in a little early. My dog wouldn't cooperate and he probably still is out there doing terrible stuff, but. I'm like nervous cause I don't hear him, but, uh, in all seriousness, man, I'm, I'm really looking forward to this year. I was, uh, 2024 definitely has some asterisks there. Like as far as who knows what we can't control any of that crazy shit. But as far as what we can't control, we're going to get after it, man. I'm really excited. I, um, I'm looking forward to, and I agree by the way, coaching that shit. I don't even want to get into that because I was so disappointed to learn like the nuances of just like how, little of the barrier for entry. Once I got into it and I'm like, okay, yeah, I'm not really looking to do this right now. Cause I have this consulting thing that I picked up one client last year. And that one client was only because that one client was a friend of mine. I knew they weren't going to be super needy. And like, I was very clear on the terms and it was a 90 day turnkey and we did it. And they're great. They work great. So it gave me a white labelable process. Probably should show you that because it's not as pretty, but it is systematic. It could definitely be even better. good enough to get them to where they needed to be. And they promote what we do. But even that is more than like Joe Blow, who like got out of prison and like does pushups. And now he's going to be a life coach. It's fucking nuts. I'm like, bro, what do you even do? I don't know what you do. I have no clue what you do, but you got him a Ferrari and a nice house. And somehow you're going to coach me on something. I don't know what I met a guy and I'll finish with this. I met a guy at the Utah at the limitless thing. Yeah. He was the DJ there. He was friends with all the big guys and Ed was there and all that stuff. So I was like, you know, probably a little starstruck, but talking to him. And, uh, he's like, you know, my only problem with the whole coaching thing is just, there's literally no barrier for entry. There's no qualifications. There's no test or certification. Like anybody can just decide, like, you know, I'm going to be a life coach or this coach today. And I'm just going to push somebody to push my stuff or pay somebody to push my stuff, rent a Ferrari, rent this, go to the gym. And here I am. Right. And it's just like, that is so gross and it's very prevalent.
Yeah.
But you got to do your homework and you got to ask for receipts and you got to do things like, you know, John was recommended a couple of times over. And then Brandon Jay, who was a good, good friend of mine, Somebody you trust implicitly. They have no reason to BS you. They benefit none from it other than helping you. And I watched the proof in the pudding with Brandon because I knew thoroughly where he was prior to you. Success. Yeah. I knew exactly where he was at though. And watched him like, Hey, I'm planning to scale to 20 end up doing like 35. And I know, you know, there were storms and stuff. I know you didn't do the work. They did the work, but you are definitely. help them put those systems and processes into place.
So from 10 to 35, that's a person to put. I will never, ever, ever take credit for the work, the hard work that you guys do. My sole responsibility is to be a guide, is to just give you guys you know, like Alisa and I talk about often, um, it's like, you know, you're standing at the bottom of a mountain looking up and you've gotten your, you've, you've crawled your ass or grinded your ass off to a certain level. And now you want the, you want to go the rest of the way up the mountain. And really all you can see right now is trees. Um, but then I pop out of those trees and I'm like, bro, I know a path. Uh, if you'll walk, if you'll actually do, I'm not going to carry your ass up the mountain. but if you'll walk and, or run as necessary, uh, I'll, I'll show you where the path is. Right. And then you guys got to do the work, right? It's, it's just, I've had clients lose 50, 60, 70 pounds. I've had clients restore marriages, you know, things like that, but that's not me doing the work for them. They got to do the hard shit. I just give them clarity on, on the, on the path to take.
And that's all. That was so refreshing to me because I knew, again, I knew Brandon and they had to, you have to, I already knew that they did the physical work, but I also knew that there was absolutely no way, no way, I can tell you personally, without taking the time to stop and input systems based on how we are currently, and this is just, I think any business, six, seven, eight, nine, 10Xing over the span of six months. and they don't make any changes is gonna be some serious shit. And well, they're going to probably, unless. They've got clarity. And so the proof to me was in the pudding. Like, you know what? I need that. I need that. Cause we're attempting to do the same. And I don't think, and I'm not going to get all weirdo. I don't think it's weird to be religious, but I'm just saying the coincidence is there. Brandon's like, he's a few years ahead just because of, you know, I've got two companies that I had or whatever, but if I hadn't split, we'd probably be on the same timeline. But comparatively, we're kind of like right there in terms of like, he clipped everybody down to one, went from five to seven to that 10. You know, we did seven something. I mean, collectively as a unit, we're probably closer to 10 because of the roofing, bathrooms, and the solar. But at any rate, we're very close in like our goals and what we're trying to do. And seeing that, the proof's in the pudding. I mean, I don't know if you guys understand that, but like to go that wide of an expansion over that short a period of time, If you don't have the systems in place, it'll be bad. Serious shit. Yeah. You won't sustain. So John, thank you so much, man. Do you have any final thoughts and where can people find you?
Yeah. So, um, number one, no, I don't have any final thoughts, but we got to come back, you know, like we got to book something in like a year from now, six, really six months and then a year from now and, and, uh, and see where things go.
I think six months even would be awesome because hope, well, I sincerely hope that'll be spring. I think we'll have built, I'd be really interested and then a year, but like the six month mark would be exciting for me. Should have a lot of momentum at that point. I think we will. I mean, we have so many goals that are predicated around spring. I almost like this office is secured. These people are in here. We've got this many reps. But I mean, that's putting the heat on, but, uh, I would love to do that.
Yeah. I'm at, uh, J O N paramore P A R a M O R E on Facebook, Instagram. Uh, I even have some stuff on tech talk. Um, but, uh, you guys can go to the smash, go.com. That's the website is being redone. You guys are going to see that pop up and, but I also have a podcast called drop the hammer. Uh, we, we did a hundred episodes under the go to war podcast, which was all mindset. Uh, drop the hammer is it we're bringing it back around to the, to the business side of things. So, uh, it's going to be very deliberately business-based.
I love that. That's awesome, man. And Brandon was just throwing that. So fantastic. We'll have to get ourselves, uh, into scalability and rock and roll, and then we'll have to hop out there. Oh yeah. But. Brother, thank you so much. I look forward to seeing you guys in six months so you can see the growth and his hard work and our hard work at work. All right. See you. See you next time. Yep.
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